Ken Savage Making IT in Massachusetts

Comments

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  melissa

  07/09/2009 at 6:56 pm

  It’s control for him because in not dealing with you and /or refusing to engage with you he does not have to face who he really is, which is an emotionally unavailable man who is not able to love you. He does not have a grown u conversation where he backs down and admits he has not been entirely truthful to you, and is using you. Your ‘role’ is to either walk away, which absolves him (in his mind, NOT in reality) of responsibility of being ‘the bad guy’, or else you will ‘beg’ him to commuicate with you, which tells him one thing: you do not think highly of yourself. He will ‘use’ this knowledge to further ‘punish’ you by ignoring you further or, when HE is ready to ‘forgive’ you (usually it will be because he wants sex or some other favour) he will begin talking again, making sure the blame for HIS silence rests on you. It is a way of manipulating you into doing what HE wants, which in your case is to stop questioning him about his other woman, but they (and I know women do this too) all do it to get ther way and make you fall into line with what they want.

  If they decide never to speak to you again they feel like they have exited the ‘relationship’ whilst they had the most power, when it was in their control, no way are they going to give you the power over them.

  He most likely is not thinking about how you’re feeling at all, his primary concern here is HIM and HIS FEELINGS. Callous yes, but this is how they operate.

  It sounds like you are strong enough to walk away, and that is good. Use this experience now to work on you, looking after you and knowing what you want, not just in a relationship but in life. Determine not to settle for less than the best, after all do you not treat others well? Yes, you do, and that is a good thing, but now you need to extend that kindness to yourself. Treat yourself well and these types will not be able to stay around you for long, you won’t attract them and they won’t attract you.

  Reply
  • 

    Marilyn

    08/09/2009 at 12:09 am

    Hi Melissa,

    I love what you wrote. You are right on and this is exactly the answer I need for where I am at. Thank YOu.

    Reply
    • 

      melissa

      08/10/2009 at 8:05 am

      Thank you Marilyn,

      I needed to re read this and follow my own advice on this, Knowing the deal in our heads doesn’t always make it follow in our hearts straight away. It hasn’t for me. This experience of being on the receiving end of silent treatment, for no other reason than the perpetrator not wanting to deal with conflict in a mature and honest way has caused me to behave in ways I would NEVER do under normal circumstances.

      i’ve begged, pleaded, apologized (even though I’m not sure for what exactly) and let him know via a 3rd party that i am happy and moving on with my life (which i am, although I’m STILL not over it or him…i just didn’t want him to have the thought in his head that I’m still pining, even though I am… how pathetic and sad is THAT?).

      Still silence. And I expect that will be the case forever amen. For the slightest (unintentional) blow to his ego (funny that because he always used to boast that he had no ego) I have been branded a non person in his head and his world, toppling from the pinnacle to below the ground in the space of an hour without warning. And made to feel crazy because I couldn’t just walk away and leave it. I so wish i could have done the quiet retreat thing.

      But I had nowhere to put the anguish and was totally overwhelmed by the rush of pain and agony him cutting me out of his life like that would cause.

      This happened in May and even this weekend I was a mess over it all again. All I have had from him is silence, or one or two lines of sarcasm. nothing more.
      I will feel differently as soon as I have pressed ’send’ as I ONCE AGAIN release this man to God and focus on my healing. But right at this very second for the amount of pain he has KNOWINGLY inflicted upon me, for no other reason than me taking too long to decide if i wanted to have sex with him…I hate him.

      Stay strong everyone, this is not your fault. My heart goes out to those who are married to or have children with these people. To the others…unless they are willing to face their issues and change (and most won’t) I’d say, get as far away as you possibly can from these types. They are toxic.

      Hugs

      Reply
  • 

    George

    09/24/2009 at 5:51 pm

    Melissa,

    Maybe it’s all your fault. Assigning blame to the man is the most cliche and useless tactic you can do. It’s always the guy’s fault, isn’t it? NEVER anything you did. Because you’re perfect.

    Lose some weight and get over yourself and you’ll probably have a much happier relationship.

    Reply
• 

  lisa

  07/10/2009 at 4:42 am

  Thanks, good advice.

  I’m going to get some counselling to work through issues I’ve buried for years and which probably account for my poor judgement and latent lack of self-respect. Which is ironic for someone whose demeanour in life – in all other respects than with men I fall for – is one of integrity, dignity and straight forwardness.

  I’ll tell you about something that happened 2 days ago. For some ungodly reason I rang my ex, the narcissist. God only knows why, I just did it. I wanted to ask him what made him tick, what made men like him operate. I didn’t feel glad or excited or anything at all to hear his voice. It made me feel queasy and I regretted every second of speaking to him. He on the other hand was overwhelmed to hear from me and, UNBELIEVABLY, was trying to get me to visit him. The bloody nerve! His explanation – if we can call it that – of cutting me off after discovering his betrayal was this: it was the the feeling of being caught out, followed by guilt. Then the hope that time and silence would put the ball in my court.

  Whether that can be believed or not is another thing.

  I don’t want an explanation – we’ve had that conversation. I just want closure.

  Melissa I always treat myself and others with dignity and respect. What is very difficult to handle, for me, is the feeling of abandonment and rejection. Which is why I said just some acknowledgement from him – just to say goodbye or its over or whatever – would let me start healing. I know I’m a good person who deserves the same in return but this fear of abandonment sits at my core. And the silent treatment triggers this primordial fear and sustains it: the major reason I’ve never fully healed from my previous ‘relationship’. While with time I grew to think of him with contempt, or not at all, I had still been abandonned and left to cope. And that is the fear I carry with me – any betrayal on his part is the pre-cursor to being abandonned.

  This then set off a barrage of texts from him the same night trying to win me over and get me back into his life which I disregarded, but with one clear speaking text I told him that wouldn’t ever happen and that he should never think otherwise. I didn’t want to give this man, OF ALL MEN who would deserve some back, the silent treatment. So yes, you’re right, it’s a mechanism to keep someone hanging in there rather than put them out of their misery or mislead them.

  You are also right that this new man is probably not even thinking about me. Ignoring me on the other hand makes him sure I’m thinking about him.

  How he sustained a 9 year relationship with 2 children he adores (that ended because of her betrayal even though he didn’t want it to end) and then goes and does this… it’s beyond me. Probably why he feels so guilty.

  I’m sorry for going on and on. I’m glad there are places like this to come and just vent and talk and have thoughts. It stings me too to think someone else is getting a better deal from him and that makes me feel crap. I want this all to just go away!!!

  Great work guys, you’re doing a sound job and I really appreciate the advice and the empathy and the common experience.

  Lisa x

  Reply
  • 

    Kristi

    08/27/2009 at 10:19 am

    I was just in a 4 month relationship with a master manipulater,user,schmoozer,lier,etc. He was so good aT WHAT HE DOES I fell hard for him.. I have been in bad relationships in the past and all he would tell me was that he wasnt like my exes and that he wanted to grow old with me and he loved me and texted and told me so 20 to 30 times a day. He seemed to perfect.. he did 15 years in prison for aiding and abetting in a 2nd degree murder. I beleived the whole “I was framed” thing too..duh on my part..This is the 4th silent treatment I have received from him and it does hurt . I have been in mentally and physically abusive relationships in the past and yes this is the worst kind of abuse because you will never know why????? He told me he loved me and see you tonite and 1/2 later he is not answering his phone and havnt heard a word since not even from his daughter i talked to daily..It is just a really weird ,,its been a week..Last time this happened it was 2 weeks and I started the ball rolling..Not this time and unfortunately he probobly wont care what happened.

    Reply
• 

  lisa

  07/13/2009 at 7:16 am

  Quick question:

  If you offer an apology for doing something out of line (which I did, I invaded his privacy) but that apology isn’t even acknowledged – he replies about other things but not the apology – what is that?

  And name calling – ”bunny boiler” – but then says it’s in jest to wind me up. What is that?

  Reply
• 

  melissa

  07/13/2009 at 2:57 pm

  Well done for thinking about the counseling, a brave step. These guys don’t change.

  i weakened over the weekend and contacted my guy (and I use the term VERY loosely!). I was missing him or at least the illusion of him. He texted me back 2 sarcastic lines saying ‘you shoulda took it while you could but you wanted it your way’ ‘now look up, oops guess who’s moved on?’

  Horrible types these, just horrible. I just texted back ‘no need to bs, when you say you moved on all you mean is you found a girl willing to give you what I was wise enough not to. Happy boning. Till it gets old and tired. Like you.’

  I know I sunk to his level but hey. It was true. And I will be on permanent silence for that, lol. Which is a relief really. The bunny boiler thing makes them feel they are the nice guy and we, having been made crazy because we dared to have real feelings and expect decent behavior are ‘conditioned’ by their silent treatment to act crazy because we desire connection and they coolly turn to their next conquest and say ‘look bunny boiler’

  your guy is trying to manipulate and control and Lisa don’t have it. Walk away and don’t look back. Even if the sex was good you will get better because you will have sex and love and acceptance. You don’t need this.

  okay about your abandonment and rejection issues. Which are very real and terrifying. You have a lot of insight and courage to even face them.

  What i want to say to you is this. People in your life HAVE let you down. BUT! remember YOUR WORTH!! they could not see it that is THEIR PROBLEM. It does not affect YOUR VALUE!

  God will never abandon you and you now need to make the choice to never after today…NEVER NEVER NEVER abandon yourself again. never reject yourself. Accept and love who you are, FOR YOU!
  When you are there for yourself no one can abandon you. You have chosen guys who reject and abandon you because that was what you needed to learn to overcome. And as you get stronger you WILL overcome it. and you will see the positive changes in your relationships. You will not tolerate such bs.

  Even when you slip up, as I did this w/e…I snapped out of it quickly and instead of the ‘but what did I do’ but why?’ etc i was like. this is the deal. you are full of bs my friend, you know it, I know it and now you know that i know.

  You get to have your closure Lisa because YOU CHOOSE when to ‘close it’ You choose to stop obsessing, take the lesson and use it to build a better future. Here is your closure. you are a good kind woman. who got involved with 2 guys who did not see your worth. So you are now choosing to cut them (emotionally) from your life. Do it now. Say goodbye. let them go. ANd step into your new and bright future.

  hugs

  Reply
• 

  Garrett

  07/22/2009 at 6:05 pm

  I was recently friends with a woman. We talked and corresponded for six months. We are both married but it was platonic. Nevertheless, the complications of us being married made it impossible to have a “normal” friendship with her, as we weren’t mutual friends of each other’s spouses. We had falling out one day and she wouldn’t return my calls after that. I realized that this friendship just would no longer work, so I wrote her a long and very nice goobye letter, since I couldn’t get her on the phone. She never replied. Weeks went by, and I tried calling her, to no avail. I wrote her a few more times, telling her I was sorry and that her silence was cruel and hurtful. I told her I just wanted closure, to say goodbye, but she wouldn’t allow me that. It was incredibly demoralizing and ruined my memories of the good times that we did have. I appealed to her compassion and her common sense to make amends out of respect for me and the friendship we had, but she remained silent. Not a single word. I blamed myself for sending the two of us down this path, but I didn’t deserve this. It’s not right. I don’t understand why people are compelled to be this way. It destroys my faith and trust in friends.

  Reply
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  lisa

  07/23/2009 at 6:55 pm

  I’ve just read a few very interesting articles on co-dependency.

  I’ve always ‘known’ there was something wrong with the feeling of panic, despair and fear of abandonment that the silent treatment invokes in me. While the well-meaning advice of ”move on he’s an arse” or ‘’stop thinking about him” are logical and make perfect sense, neither are realistic for me and I know that. I just ‘can’t’ give up the need for release from this silence, approval, to be saved from this silent torture.

  If anyone else on here can identify with this, then please look up codependency. It is often associated with the carers of alcholics and the need to feel needed, but there are many other patterns and symptoms.

  I’d be interested to hear back from anyone on here who looks co-dependency up and sees themself in it.

  Lisa

  Reply
  • 

    Peter

    08/06/2009 at 7:40 pm

    I am on the 4th day of a strict silent treatment. No talking , no eye contact, no answering when prompted., phone calls and emails not answered, TOTAL block out , she sleeps and spends the evenings in the guest room too.

    But lets start with an issue I might be suffering from and which might be the reason why this hurts me so much. I think I have a probably illogical fear of abandonment. When I was very young about 5 years my parents left me on my own in the house a few times, and I remember having panic attacks while they were away. Cant remember now how long they were away. Maybe only for a couple of hours. However to me, being 5 years old it seemed like forever and remeber having panic attacks because I thought my parents would never come back or started thinking about what would I do when they died. Weird to think this now but I was a young child. I think I am in every other sense pretty normal – emotially stable and usually calm , but the fear of abandonment creeps in sometimes, when someone withdraws from me and I am not sure whether it is normal or am I really scarred from when I was a child. I dont usually like to be on my own much.

    Anyway, getting to the real point here, I am being given the silent treatment now for a few days. This has now been happening for the best part of 11 years, maybe once every 2 months or sometimes more often, for anything up to a week at a time.

    She will not talk to me , completely ignore me even when i direct a straight question at her.

    She has a quick temper and minor things will trigger it. At that point i cant either be very careful and back off or if I dare stand up and disagree and maybe have an discussion/argument , then there is a very good chance she will snap and go into silent treatment mode.

    It makes me feel awful and for some reason very stressed and also very angry that she does this to me, she is hurting me and I think she knows it but she doesnt care. Im almost sick that she has the power to make me feel this way.

    She is given me the silent treatment for a few days now. I dont know how to deal with it. If I try talk to her, she will ignore me and if I press for an answer, then she will go into full strop again , blaming me for everything, and will blame me not only the minor thing that triggered her strop, but every other single thing that she thinks I am to blame for – many things which I wont even remember! Once she mentioned she had something with someone at work and this time she mentioned that her parents&family think that I am the reason why she is ill. Lovely comments and lovely parents&family that is.

    Shortly after a strop, sometimes, she cries and looks depressed while she is given me the silent treatment. She is/plays the victim. She really believe she is in her mind. This is real for her. Many other times after a day or 2, she will be watching some comedy on TV and will be laughing out loud – like she is really happy, and I dont exist and i am not there.

    It is catch 22, one of her major complaints is that she wants to have a child. Silent treatments are rarely triggered by an argument about this big issue though. They are caused usually by stupid minor things. However, I would hate hate hate myself if I had children with her and she kept doing this. Thats why I am waiting in the hope that her behaviour will change, the strops and silent treatments will stop and then I would be happy to a child. It is catch 22 , she is unhappy about it, so she throws strops and gives me silent treatments. And I dont want to have a child with her, if this behaviour is going to continue. However, I could not leave her either.

    Its very tough. I think we love each other. My heart says one thing, but my head is telling me to be careful, and maybe get out of it while I can, while we dont have children, while it is 11 years and not 31 years. Dont know what to do. Someone might just tell me to leave her. but I dont know if I can. On the other hand I was really happy this year, I thought she was getting better – “only” 3 silent treatments so far this year – which is an improvement. Maybe she will change. I had hope. Maybe if we had a child she would stop doing this. Saying that, 4 5 6 years ago she was doing this and back then having a child was not an issue. Although, I am sure that there were other things I was to blame for. Being out with my friends too often or maybe something else. Then again the triggers for silent treatments are usually really minor things – whether they are deep down caused by the bigger issues she has with me I dont really know.

    I do remember she mentioned that this type of behaviour has gone on in her family. I think her dad would not talk to her mum for days. I guess she might have learnt the behaviour? I dont know. But I cant believe you can learn it – you see it happen and if you are the kind of person that would do that then you go ahead and copy it. But you have a choice not to do it. I guess it is different with quick temper. I guess you are born with it ? I dont know . Too many questions I dont have answers for. I feel like I could do with a degree in Psychology or something.

    I had 2 long term relationships and they both had a quick temper so that makes me wonder , are all women the same? or is it me that causes them to do this? That is what she says , that is my fault that I bring this in her.
    My ex however would kind of snap out of it after a few hours or a day or 2 and move on. I could more or less deal with that. However living with someone that ignores you and sleeps in the guest room for around a week at a time -with possibly the only purpose of hurting you is a very different matter in my opinion . And yes, I am saying this because I am angry that she does that and because my head is telling me that this can not continue. My head is writing right now. However my heart usually rules what I do in the end.

    It is interesting that in 11 years I dont remember any times when I threw a strop and I definetely never went to sleep to guest room.

    its a long story, but I had to get it out of my system. And its my life. I feel like I have to make some big decision and I am unable to do it.

    After all those negative comments about her behaviour, it would be unfair not to mention, that other 70 or 80% of the time, when we are ok , everythign is fantastic.

    Is she normal ? am I ? is it all my fault ?
    I dont know. Probably need some serious help to work it all out.

    Anyway sorry for the long story,
    if anyone has any advice I will appreciate it .

    Thanks.

    Reply
    • 

      Susan

      10/10/2009 at 9:37 pm

      Peter,

      I understand what your going through exactly. I must say, I feel like this helps to write it and release it to the world. I’ve lived so many days in silence and in isolation with my feelings. Somedays I am fine. Those are the days when I minimize what they have done to me. It’s actually my closest friend who does this to me. But it’s the same thing- close friendships with girls are similar to those with boyfriends- minus the physical side. But, we are just as emotionally close- if not more then a boyfriend would be.

      Anyway, Its funny because if a guy did this to me I don’t think I would put up with it. That is just how my mom raised me. But she never mentioned not to let women hurt you.

      So I don’t know where to begin or how I could help you when I can’t help myself. Perhaps, it will make you feel better to know your not alone. But damn it, it’s not fair what she makes me feel. It is not right, because I care so much about this person. But, slowly, I am beginning not to care as much. And this has only started to happen because I physically left town. Perhaps, it is easier for me to leave town since its a friendship and I have no moral obligations on that part. But I left because well one I was going off to school and two I couldn’t handle it.

      I don’t know how to explain it- it could actually be harder for me to know the way she treats me is real because we are indeed friends. What I mean is, (at present) she’ll say she will call me- promise she will- then won’t for 2-5 days. So in my own mind I tell myself “It’s okay, she just is busy with her other friends, stop caring so much.”

      And the only reason I do care is because how she treated me in the past before I left. In the beginning it was wonderful- she was a great friend, always laughed at my humor and so on” Then I don’t know even know how it started or how it came to be like it is.

      Well, I’ll try to think back- I was always there for her. Her mood would suddenly start changing to sadness which she said was caused by her boyfriend, or her parents or so on. Anyway, she would then be triggered by something and lash out at me (just like you’ve experienced) for no real reason at all. And I would spend days trying to figure out what caused it and what I did wrong. I’d come up with alot of reasons (all of which concluded I did do something bad. So I’d try everything from sorry to being distant to acting like I didn’t care to giving a ton of love. Everything and anything really. Anyway, you get to be like pavlov’s dogs and your conditioned to not get on their nerves. So we are like dogs, who are always there for our master and who get treats when they feel like giving. And its like when you experience this silent treatment- all you want is there attention and love back- so you feel so much towards this person.

      It’s sick and its not fair and yes we can go on hoping perhaps it will get better but they say it only does get better when either 1. They go to therapy and realize it is abuse and they want to change it. 2. when you mentally and physically leave them like they have left you.

      But it’s so difficult because you feel like they are aware they are hurting you, so they know what they are doing. Therefore, perhaps, when they see how low you’ve gotten they will stop. And perhaps they do stop for a day or a week or 2 but then they do it again. A living makes you sick. And life doesn’t matter anymore and you don’t trust anyone anymore.

      So good luck truly, its difficult and you only have one life to live so.

      Reply
• 

  the one who flies low

  07/23/2009 at 7:18 pm

  Hey All…

  Happy boning!

  That’s great! I love it!

  Yeah, I’ve read those books. The Adult Children of Alcoholics is a great book. And yes, there was alcoholism in my family. And you know what? Even though the addict doesn’t use anymore, the dynamics are still there, sadly, which makes it impossible for me to be around them. That’s the whole reason I came to this page.

  But the bright side is you CAN get past it. For me it meant dating guys whom I liked but with whom the chemistry was not automatic. The wonderful man I found was not an instant “ping” for me attractionwise–but after an adjustment period (I had to teach him to kiss me properly) it is frickin great. The best thing in my life and it was so worth the wait and so worth the anguish and pain of learning that no matter how well I played the relationships with the Silent Ones, it always left me empty in the end. I realized that no matter how strongly I felt, I wanted equally strong feelings back. After 9/11 I really had a change of heart. Because all those people were walking the streets of Manhattan with posters bearing pictures of their beloved ones. And I thought, if I were missing, I would want someone walking the streets looking for me. As it was then, no one would have been, and certainly not the man I loved to distraction.

  I also have had friends who went silent and dropped the friendships and that was almost more devastating than boyfriend troubles, because you want your friends to be friends for a long time, you know? One woman in particular I still scratch my head over. She was a lesbian and other friends said maybe she dropped me because she “liked” me. For one thing, I don’t sense that’s true, but for another, how could someone just blow you off like that? I was friends with her for years, we had lonely holidays together, being expat Midwesterners in Hollywood. *sigh*

  Still hurts years later. I just had to let it go. It takes two. The real reason I have learned to let those people go is that it just hurts too damn much, in that horrible way, when you extend yourself and there is only silence.

  Reply
• 

  Cristy

  07/24/2009 at 4:40 pm

  ok, I need help, here is my situation:
  I was married and walked away from my husband. it’s been 2years now and everytime I tx him or email him i get no response..
  What does that mean and what should I do about it?

  I tell him my deepest feelings and I have apologize to him like millions of times..

  Reply
  • 

    Rita

    10/02/2009 at 6:17 pm

    Cristy,

    I don’t think there is immediate help for your situation. You say that you walked away from your husband- you need to understand that if he is a serious and stand-up guy, who cares about his family and/or his future family, he would never take you back- why you ask? Because you’ve already shown that you are not strong enough to fight for both of you, no matter what the situation, meaning that the chance it will happen again and you will get scared/pissed off/weakened is too great and most likely in his view(and all the people surrounding you both, friends, family etc.) it will happen again (experience and history also shows it – Once a runner, always a runner). What you need to do is not text and e-mail him (which is very impersonal), but call him or even go over- show him your true feelings and that you care by doing deeds, not by sending e-mails. He has already lost your trust, don’t expect to gain it back- unless you give yourself completely and show that you still have the guts to fight for the future of both of you. Sad, very sad and sorry to hear it, this is why people should think, before they do something irrational, not seeing the consequences. Hope this helps.

    Reply
• 

  patty

  07/30/2009 at 7:03 pm

  My brother is giving me the silent treatment and it has lasted the last two weeks. I have tried to extend the olive branch and he is not accepting. The sad thing is our father died 3 months ago and I am heartbroken. I have already lost my father and the thought of losing contact with a sibling is killing me. I can’t sleep and I think about it all the time. The thing is I know it is him and not me, I know this is his passive-aggresive behavior and he is a very controlling person. But I can’t get past the pain and the hurt. Any suggestions on how to cope with it better? I need to find a “shelf” in my brain to put it on and leave it there but I am having problems doing that. Anyone have any tips to help me deal with it better so I can get on with my life?

  Reply
• 

  the one who flies low

  07/31/2009 at 8:19 pm

  I wrote a journal once as I was trying to get over a guy who I adored passionately. I worked in the same place he did, so it was excruciating. There are no names, it’s an anonymous journal, but the title is “700 days on the other Side” because I figured it would take 700 days to fully get it out of my system.

  http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/other_side/copy_of_index.html

  We had been lovers for many years and friends for many more. I don’t feel REMOTELY the same way now that the spell is broken. I knew it was a spell, knew it needed to be broken, but still cherished what was between us because it felt like there was a friendship outside the realm of craziness that we also shared. I am actually not sure now that was the case. Whatever the case, writing the journal was the best therapy I could have taken on. The computer was right there at work and if he was peeking at me through a studio window, or staring at me in the hallway, or trying to prod a reaction from me, I could go and type it out of my system. I had girlfriends who would commiserate on the phone, and the thing that just helped most was talking about it, talking about it, hearing the stories of others, and reading about the kind of relationship it was—which despite the individual specialness of it, is actually pretty common.

  One-way relationships where one person has most of the power are really more common than I had thought. A good book was “Obsessive Love: When It Hurts Too Much to let go” and “How to Break Your Addiction To A Person” were particularly powerful. From the first pages the stories and case studies in the books grabbed me. There are lots of crappy pop psych books out there. But these are amazing.

  There was another book that really rocked my socks—”The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships” by Patrick Carnes. That book was the first to answer the question I had: “How can something be so powerful, so completely take over my body and mind, how can it be so riveting and elemental to me that I almost lose my mind over it, and not be good for me? Surely there’s some reason this feels so strong.” The reason, according to Carnes, (who is associated with The Meadows rehab center and is on the leading edge of research into addiction and emotional/verbal abuse) is that the bonds created by trauma _mixed with_ affection can be in fact stronger and more binding than the bonds created by love. The trauma and shock, mixed with alternating affection and attention, set off certain chemicals in the brain that mimic the highs and lows of chemical addictions. I realized that I was in effect addicted to the relationship. I knew it, and knew that this dynamic in and of itself meant the relationship was doomed. I was too trapped in my addiction for it to be an honest relationship, and the man in question was a perfect fit with my dysfunctional emotional profile, but only partially with my emerging healthy one.

  What ended up happening was that I ended this relationship and met someone who did not have the same magnetic pull for me, but who made me laugh, whose mind and life I admired, whose friendship proved steady and sweet, and who adored me and thought I was the most beautiful thing ever to enter his world. It was definitely a new experience, because it wasn’t mixed with trauma. That’s not to say we don’t fight (we are still together) but when we disagree, we are able to stand back and take a breath and then talk until we come to a new game plan that will make us both happy. We had one big fight years ago that was very painful, but educational, because it was the first time we had to work through something seriously threatening, and coming out the other end I know I realized I wanted him in my life for good, because the way he handled it satisfied me that he really loved me, and I realized I felt the same way.

  Anyway—-it’s much more possible to work things out when the other person isn’t holding back and doling out his attention to you in teeny tiny dribs and drabs, keeping you on the edge of your seat, in a fight-or-flight physiological state, which might be good for passionate breakups and reunions, but makes rational communication that much more difficult. This relationship is not at its core a struggle over who has more power, and that is such a beautiful relief, it is what was missing from all the others in my life.

  I have really gone on and on here.

  I feel for you guys who have posted, because I know exactly how you feel. Especially the lady whose husband is giving her silent treatment, Christy. If for two years no answer then you just will have to let go as best you can and move on…as painful as that seems..you deserve someone who will treat you with much more respect than that. That is heartbreaking but as you can see from the posts above people have been abandoned by family, friends, lovers, husbands and wives and girlfriends and boyfriends, and every one of us here deserves better than that. We are all beautiful, individual humans who were put here for a purpose. Remember that you are you, and no one else ever has been you, and no one else ever will be again. You are much too special to be treated so poorly.

  Patty, my brother just came back from Afghanistan. He is an officer in the Army. Our political beliefs are very different and I have watched hopelessly over the years as hundreds of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq were killed in the “war on terror.” I can’t tell you how much I admire my brother–and how much despair I feel at the foreign policy of the people who would put him in harm’s way in the way they have. To my mind, war is absolute last resort. I am in no way satisfied that the people who sent him to war, exhausted every effort they could to avoid further bloodshed, in the wake of 9/11.

  But that is only my opinion, and he feels differently. He is on his own journey and anyone who goes to a mountaintop and lives close to the land and the people, in however a contentious or stressful way, is going to learn much about himself and others. I would love to know what he thinks about the things he’s seen and been through.

  But he will never tell me. When I was little, his mother, my stepmother, was merciless toward me, and I was not terribly welcome in “her” family. (She married my Dad after my Mom had died–after carrying on an affair with him for 7 years while my Mother despaired, which I had to witness every day.)

  I adored my brother who is technically a half-brother. I have a half-sister as well. We were not allowed to discuss my Mother, who had been my stepmother’s bitter rival. The two little ones were bright spots during a very dark time in my life, and they were influenced strongly by their mother’s attitude toward me, but I also took care of them, taught them things and spent years of my life watching them and playing with them. As a result I think they were confused about me, and they were also not told that I (and my full sister) had a different mother. I begged my Dad to tell them this, for years, but he refused over and over again, telling me that “we’ll do it when they are old enough to understand.”

  Well, little kids are old enough to understand. They are old enough to understand that if their mother is a b^%&*^*&tych to someone, that it is OK to be a jerk to them. At the same time, they were not able to see me as I really am, as I was a very fearful person whose ideas were shot down over and over, and ridiculed.

  I am thankful that my own mother raised me with love and with the belief that I am a good person, interesting, smart and very much worth knowing. This gave me the strength to gradually come out from under the crippling lack of confidence that the years under the control of my stepmom left me with. It has been a slow journey.

  When my brother left for Afghanistan at the age of 26 I realized that my father never had any intention of explaining the family history to him—not even in a cursory way. After a disastrous weekend trip with my sibling and father (minus the Stepmom but she was certainly there in spirit) —which left me sobbing hysterically looking for an early plane out of there, I realized it was hopeless and that these people would never respect my point of view, my decisions about my life, and that they had no interest in my actual experiences at all. As long as I took their crap, I was OK with them. But it wasn’t OK anymore. By that time I had met the love of my life, the one who really loved me, and I no longer wanted to sit silently while fingers pointed at me.

  So I wrote my brother a letter telling him explicitly why I could no longer participate in the family system as it was. I told him the things my stepmom, his mom, did to me, and to my mother. I told him everything important. He did not want to hear it. The one time I spoke to him on the phone he told me I was wrong, that my stepmom, his mom, Loved Me. For an example he cited that my stepmom had been bragging on my boyfriend acting in a major motion picture.

  Well, of course she did. You know?

  When I started crying he cut the conversation short. I felt completely unheard, devastated, because I do love my brother. He was the kid I could always laugh with. And I don’t think my Dad and Stepmom have been fair to him, either. I think they are in a constant power struggle with each other and that they involve each of us kids in it. I think he got some of the worst abuse in the family, besides me. I think he’s a fighter, a survivor, he became a pilot at age 16 and is a talented artist and a very funny, considerate man, from what I know of him. I know little to nothing of him because that’s how his Mom wanted it. I left them for California in 1994. The last time I spent with my brother, he came to California for a week, in the midst of a debilitating illness. I took him all over the place and we had a great time and I think maybe it helped him. It certainly helped me.

  But I don’t know really, what sort of person he is now. I know he is a person who did not even respond to an email letting him know I was engaged to my boyfriend. I know he doesn’t want to talk to me and hasn’t replied to any of the letters/packages I sent to him overseas. I know he doesn’t return emails, I know he has a wedding in the fall and I have not been invited, I know nothing except that I can no longer occasionally send him emails with jokes or current events information, I have to give him up completely.

  I know I am the bad guy in the family now because I have refused to play along with their head games anymore. I don’t speak to any of them now. I told each one of them why I wasn’t comfortable with the way they treated me, and it has been “their move” for years.

  But they have made no move.

  this includes my own father, and my full sister. they are loyal to my stepmother and I have committed the cardinal sin of asserting that she does not, in fact, love me.

  It’s a fantasy they’re committed to: that this woman somehow “loves” me. It doesn’t matter that she conveyed clearly to me that she didn’t want me visiting them (including putting me and my boyfriend on a broken sofa bed which would not lay flat but tilted 35 degrees, with metal rods poking out). It doesn’t matter that she’s given away every present I ever gave her, and then let me know about it.

  It doesn’t matter that since the mid-90’s, she rejected me time and again, refused to move beyond Fake mode, and makes up all kinds of outrageous shit that isn’t remotely true (like that Dad loved me more than the others, which is so insane I don’t even know what to do with it).

  I gathered my guts about me once in the early aught’s (sounds weird to say that) and told her in a phone conversation about a very painful experience I had of leaving a job where I had been demoted suddenly without warning. It was a job I had held for 11 years and, for my profession, one of the best I had had. She listened the entire time without saying a word, occasionally saying doubtfully, “hmmm” and finally, at the end, criticising me for letting it bother me.

  So I really did try with her. Over and over again.

  No use. So I let it go.

  And somehow everyone believes I am the bad guy. When I was little and this woman was beating and tormenting me, and I tried to let my Dad know, he punished me for “not making her feel welcome.” She would cry and say she was doing the best she could, and he believed her.

  And they all still do.

  And it is still hard to let go.

  I was raised to believe family stayed together. But not at this cost.

  So that’s my story. These days I just remember my commitment to myself to resist—-resist continuing to try to have some kind of communication with my brother, who was the only one of my siblings to say “you’re my sister and I love you no matter what.”

  That really moved me, and, knowing how little he knows and understands of our family’s background, I sent him things while he was away at war. I am not sorry I did it, but I did it with a heavy heart and an ache not to hear a single word back.

  Finally, after I included him in a group email I sent about health care reform, I slid into a depression and thought far too much about the fact that absolutely nothing comes back from this person and I have to let him go.

  So Patty that is my story about my brother. I know this is really long. Hope it takes.

  Reply
  • 

    melissa

    08/10/2009 at 3:33 pm

    this brought me to tears. You are a courageous woman.

    Reply
    • 

      LL

      08/10/2009 at 9:48 pm

      thank you so much

      it helps just to tell it

      god bless

      Reply
    • 

      LL

      08/10/2009 at 9:52 pm

      and, my brother called me this last weekend. I couldn’t believe it.

      We talked about Afghanistan, where he just spent the last 9 months. I had told him, all the stuff with the family, please let it not get between us. None of it was his fault and it is not his problem. Each member of the family is an individual to me now. Any one of them can call me, I never turned any of them away.

      I was so happy to hear his voice. We chatted for about half an hour. I am so proud of him, he was always the one in the family I could count on to laugh —which is a darned sight better than crying, when things get really stupid—so maybe we can be friends.

      You never know, you know? I was so glad he called.

      Reply
      • 

        renee

        09/20/2009 at 12:35 am

        I’m so happy to come across this webpage right now. Of course, I’m not happy about what I’m reading, and the suffering of others, but I am happy there is a place like this where those of us who are wondering what the heck is going on with our partners can come and get some decent information and not just a bunch of pop-psych crap. I’m glad for the real stories on here, they’re hard to read, because for many of us, its real, you can read another person’s story and empathize with their feeling because of what you are feeling or have felt. This isn’t so much a post about what my issues are right now, which I will post another time when I can gather some thoughts into coherency and hope for some feedback, but just felt compelled to at least write and no matter if you are a man or a woman on here, if you’ve come up against these toxic emotional manipulators in your own life and are growing out of them and growing in love with yourself in a healthy way, then this page will be forever filled with goodies for those of us desperate enough to get online in the wee hours of the morning because we just can’t even sleep for the worry and fret over what to do. I will be back, and thank you all for sharing your live’s with us.

        Reply
        • 

          Ken Savage

          09/20/2009 at 8:32 am

          Renee, I’m hoping to break this page off on to it’s own website so to be able to help out others that are getting the Silent Treatment. Where other people can share their stories and learn from each other how to deal with something like this.

          I wonder if anyone out there would be able to help me and link to the new site when we have it up and running?
• 

  Debbie

  08/05/2009 at 4:39 am

  I am receiving the silent treatment at the moment from my husband. Its gotten past a joke because its the way he responds to everything. We have a problem, i sit with him and try to talk about it, he never responds verbally, just stares at the wall, the tv or anywhere but at me. His body language becomes irritable and then he walks away, goes to bed and avoids me for days on end. He wont discuss anything whatsoever.

  His conversations go no deeper than the weather! As parents we all have problems that need to be discussed with our other halves whether it be related to the kids, families or finances. He refuses point blank to discuss these things and ends up sulking because he feels i put unecessary strain on him!

  His sulking and blanking me is getting too much because he is now including the kids. he is not acknowledging them either.

  Any ideas on how to deal with this kind of behaviour?

  Reply
• 

  Trudy

  08/05/2009 at 6:14 pm

  I have posted this before: The silent treatment is part of a passive aggressive personality which actually is from an emotionally immature person. It is a manipulative ploy and must only be treated with assertiveness. Set an example for the the person by firstly staying calm and telling them that their behavior is not becoming of them and that you will be waiting for them when they figure out how to calmly express themselves and to “use their words”. I know that you must lead by example or you have blown your opportunity to ‘deserve’ the same. This is how you can teach someone to treat you. If the other person can not grow up and be mature enough to handle themselves as such then they will not garner your respect and you can not have a mature relationship. It is up to them to change and nothing else will do it for them. By being calm and sure consistently you will find for the most part that you will be treated better and the best part is, you will know for absolutely certain that you deserve the same and be proud of yourself for it.
  Good luck to all!

  Another was: I do understand that it IS upsetting. It will bother you and that is normal, with the right knowledge though it cannot hold the same power over you. You will know what you need to do and it can then become habit. Once it does you can feel a peace that can’t be rocked by others. Recognizing it BEFORE you respond is the way to own your feelings, but you need to analyze WHAT the feeling is (hurt), then you can change your emotion to suit what is best for you. It is all about contributing the best of ourselves regardless of the choices of others. Your self improvement will give you a new confidence and the actions of others WILL be a place for you to choose and make yourself all you can be!
  So go forth in confidence. YOU deserve the best you.
  This has been a 25+ year journey for myself since I first recognized my own power over myself instead of being at the mercy of others manipulations. I have found it is all in the preparing of yourself and how you really want to be, then taking action. That is the difference between passive aggressiveness and being assertive. I don’t mean to be preachy…just teachy, lol. This is my personal testimony and conviction that it works to make you much happier (note: not to change but possibly inspire others….at the least have respect).

  Reply
  • 

    zhan

    08/05/2009 at 7:18 pm

    Hello again, I haven’t posted in a while…..lots of stress at work. It is amazing though that the more things change, th emore they stay the same. Some people just must hurt others or at lesat try in order to validate themselves.

    Reply
    • 

      LL

      08/10/2009 at 9:53 pm

      hang in there zahn. this kind of stuff at work can really make things miserable. just keep your core protected and don’t give the jerks any ammunition, just take care of yourself and do the best you can. if you want to talk about it we’re here

      Reply
  • 

    Gretchen

    09/26/2009 at 6:17 pm

    Trudy,
    I just read your post and I love your advice about being assertive and owning your own feelings. Also, your statement that with the right knowledge, it cannot hold the same power over you. It is all about contributing the best of ourselves regardless of the choices of others. It is so interesting to me that I do try my best to live my life this way. It is quite easy for me in all other aspects of life (work, friends) other than a love relationship. I believe I am viewed by others as being friendly, calm, and a person who approaches people with respect and thinks things through before reacting. Reading your post has really helped me to realize that in the end, I am the one responsible for my own feelings and reactions to someone who I know is not treating me well (in a love relationship). It has only been one week since I have figured out that I am in one of “these relationships”. I was very distraught until I started reading the posts on this site. Yours in particular has really really helped. I wanted to thank you so much. Also, I am curious if you have been able to follow your own advice and has it led you to realize that you deserve way better in a relationship? My personal worry is that I understand this stuff but may keep going back to it!

    Reply
• 

  Debbie

  08/06/2009 at 2:35 am

  Thanks for the reply Trudy. I have said he is passive aggressive for the past 5 years. I have read everything on it and yeah he seems to exhibit lots of the traits that go along with it.

  I am avoiding spending any time in the same room as him at the moment because its so uncomfortable living in such an atmosphere.

  I waited until the kids were in bed last night and sat down to talk to him about how intimidated i feel when being punished with the silent treatment and his witholding affection. I grew up with this kind of behaviour as my mum used it as a form of punishment too. I told him it stops any real progression of sorting issues out but puts them on the back boiler for another day. Avoiding and blanking issues does not make them go away, it makes them larger and more significant. He blanked me and made no eye contact but stared at the tv and gave off “victim” body language.

  He behaves the same at work from what i can gather through snippets of information he has given me. If things didnt go according to plan in his last job he would ring in sick and sulk for days but feel very victimised when he faced the negative consequences of his actions. Unbelievable! He ended up losing his job because of it and still cannot understand why.

  He just cannot accept responsibility for anything and always on the look out for someone else to blame.

  The more i get on with my life and ignore his immature attempts to manipulate me the more he seeks revenge. He stops taking care of himself, acts severely depressed and acts really spiteful towards anyone and everyone.

  Reply
• 

  lisa

  08/06/2009 at 8:01 am

  Since my last post I have been for two hypnotherapy sessions which have helped my anxiety attacks and helped me bring the feelings of panic under control.

  My last session was only yesterday so the ‘new filters’ that have been suggested to my subconscious may take adjustment time to start working. It was explained to me that the silent treatment is a very effective way of conditioning someone’s beliefs about themself. It is intended to confirm all of your worst thoughts, compound them and even add to them. The sarcasm, contempt, disdain etc that go with it are a means of easy attack and retreat, giving them a ‘quick hit’ of what they need to feel good about themselves.

  Ridiculous as it seems though, and I’m an intelligent and emotionally stable person, I can’t get a handle on how this open, funny, warm man I care for deeply who showed no anger towards me in person when I confronted him but rather understanding and compassion, is now doing this to me. We don’t live together so I’m not suffering in the same room with him but right now that would seem a bit of a luxury. I didn’t shout at him, make a scene, I haven’t made any contact, done anything crazy. His impression of women is that they ”are all mad” so how he is interpreting my lack of response when he is probably expecting something ‘crazy’ is almost interesting.

  It just doesn’t ‘make sense’. I feel despisable, unwanted, I’m questioning my character and my nature, I’m terrified most of the time even when there is nothing to really be afraid of, I’m scared I’ll never hear from or see him again but then I’m scared to contact him in case he ignores me further or dishes out some more sarcastic contempt.

  It is the loneliest I have ever felt, which for someone who can spend days and days content in my own company, is scary indeed.

  What should I do? I can’t believe he wants or intends to hurt me with this when my only crime was being hurt in the first place. It’s like he wont’t deal with feelings or caring for someone and rather than extend an apology (felt or otherwise) and end it graciously, if thats what he wants, he prefers to make me feel worse.

  I feel no animosity, anger or hurt towards him. It’s like all these energies are felt inside towards myself. This is what is so crippling about the silent treatment. An ex of mine used to give me the same treatment for a week at a time but then always come back – usually with a half apology that projected most of the blame on to me. But this is different, it has been over 3 weeks since his last communication wihich was cold, sarcastic and dismissive.

  Why can I not just think ah the hell with you. Does he want me to just disppear?

  Reply
  • 

    Gretchen

    09/26/2009 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Lisa,
    Your last post to me suggested that I look for red flags. I forgot to mention in my last correspondance with you that as I was walking away, I heard him say “crazy women” just loud enough for me to hear. I did acknowledge that I heard the comment and kind of laughed it off. However, it is interesting that you also experienced this being said to you. By the way, I am not crazy at all. What do you think about this? I think its a way for them to make us question ourselves as if we are interpreting what is happening totally wrong. Again, making it our fault rather than theirs. Also, my guy has a history of blaming his actions on a “demon”. Talk about a total lack of responsibility!!

    Reply
• 

  Debbie

  08/06/2009 at 9:04 am

  No he wants you to grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness!

  Make this whole issue about you and not him! Its enables him not to face the dragon he really is and keep breathing fire in your direction!

  Stay strong sweetie

  Reply
  • 

    Zahn

    08/08/2009 at 1:11 pm

    I agree with Debbie, playing on your weaknesses makes him fell like a real man

    Reply
    • 

      lisa

      08/09/2009 at 8:10 am

      thanks zahn for yr comment. Before i decide to send him a txt along the lines of debbie’s suggestion, could it be that his silence, sarcasm and more silence is his way of ending things with me? As cruel and undeserved as that may be. What is his endgame.

      Reply
• 

  lisa

  08/06/2009 at 10:15 am

  Thanks Debbie

  is that really it??! He wants me to apologise – yet AGAIN I might add. I’ve already apologised, the first which he scorned and the second which he has ignored. And no contact since then.

  Well he won’t find me grovelling, never have for anyone and never will. Thought I have to admit, it has hurt SO much at times that I’d have traded grovelling for relief.

  I’d love to be the bigger person and send him a text that diffused the situation, even if he didnt respond, just to make ME feel better and for him to think ‘maybe this isn’t getting to her after all’.

  Do people like this eventually back down/drop their guard? Or has he completely forgotten I exist. It feels that way but then it’s meant to do that to a person.

  I just think sometimes he has cruelly used this method to end it all. I’m trying to stay strong but just need to see the finishing line somewhere.

  Reply
• 

  Debbie

  08/07/2009 at 3:31 am

  He hasnt completely forgotten you exist at all love. I believe he is trying to hurt you by his silent treatment. Some people get so consumed with anger and the only way they can get revenge is by giving the silent treatment. They know this hurts deeply. Ive heard that responding with the silent treatment doesnt work and i do believe that to be true.

  If you really want to send a text or something i would say “i know you must be in some kind of pain and thats why you are avoiding me, refusing to acknowledge i exist and thats ok. When and if you are ever ready to discuss the matter with me then feel free to get in touch. If not then i wish you all the best for the future”. and leave it at that. Its not grovelling, its not accepting responsibility and its telling the guy you know he is doing it because of his emotions.

  Hope this helps.

  Reply
• 

  Trudy

  08/07/2009 at 9:27 pm

  It is unfortunately a reality that many of these passive aggressive types will always see themselves as the victim and will never mature enough to take responsibility. So the decision to be made is left to you in how you will respond. If you have given yourself all the knowledge and effort to respond to this to the best of your ability. Then you must ask yourself if the one sided relationship is what you can comfortably live with, if not, save yourself and your self esteem. People don’t change easily. If they can’t contribute to the relationship then they are contaminating it. Immaturity and self-centeredness in a formed adult don’t go away, and you can’t wish it away. Facing that may be the hardest thing to do even more so than dealing with these people, but usually the most satisfying in the end.

  Nothing worthwhile in life is easy.
  My heart goes out to you,
  let yours be what heals you.

  Reply
  • 

    melissa

    08/10/2009 at 8:11 am

    Yes this is very true, well put Trudy!

    Reply
• 

  Chris

  08/09/2009 at 4:18 pm

  Lisa:

  Your situation and personality similarly reflect mine. What I hear in your comments, mostly, is your need to know if it is OVER. Am I right?

  I have been “iced” totally by someone for five weeks now. The situation that started the silent treatment (towards me) was a mere disagreement/argument. Over the past five months of a relationship, we had never been cross nor disagreed about anything. During our disagreement, I was very clear that I was disappointed and confused by his bahavior. I never swore, made attacks on his character, nor did I demean him. What I did was be true to myself and call him on something. I did it firmly, but with tact.

  I have since sent several apologies for my part of an “unpleasant” conversation. I have tried to appeal to his sense of compassion. He will not respond EVER. I even asked him to simply say goodbye so I could have some closure-even if it was over. NOTHING.

  A month prior to the argument, he told me he was falling in love and went on to express his feelings for me in what amounted to a very long, serious conversation. We both declared our feelings for each other.

  Did I hurt him? scare him ? Make him angr? Are his feelings of falling in love gone? So quickly? Incidentally, neither of us are young. We are both in our 40’s. Not teenagers!

  I, too, am trying to understand why someone would not say goodbye. Does that mean it is not over? They do not want to say goodbye? They want to keep you around because they still want you?

  IS IT OVER?

  Any comments from anyone?

  Reply
  • 

    melissa

    08/10/2009 at 8:27 am

    Chris you could be writing my story. 3 months down the line I have to say, yes it is over. It was over the moment he decided not to respond to my apology (even though I had done nothing wrong) and request to know what it was I *had* done that was so awful.

    If I was that angry with someone and they asked me that question and i was too upset to talk I would still give them the dignity of a reply along the lines of “i’m too upset to talk about this now. When I have had the opportunity to calm down I will address this with you and will contact you then.”

    If they persisted after that and i still was not ready, I would say “i understand your need to know and i respect it, but I also respect you enough to want to address this in a calm and rational manner and I’m just not there yet. I assure you that as soon as I’m ready, I WILL contact you, but in the meantime, would ask that you respect my need for space at this time’

    Had my guy said that to me I would have let go much quicker. It’s honest and lets me know that he is NOT disregarding me or my feelings.

    so it’s over because he has not deemed me worthy of that respect and does not care, after everything we shared, whether I’m okay about it. I wouldn’t expect that from an acquaintance never mind a friend, family member or partner. So no. No way back.

    I got cut off in the same way, just after feelings of love had been admitted and expressed. Same thing, agreeable relationship me calling him on some disrespectful beahviour in the most loving tactful way I could. Same deal. We’re not kids either!

    It is about control on his part. It is immature, spiteful and sadly…inflicted knowingly, although they feel totally justified in what they are doing and in their heads are totally convinced we deserve it.

    I am sorry you are going through this. I totally relate to the agony of not knowing. It has consumed the best part of the summer for me and I hate that it has. But as I said before, be strong. This is not your fault.

    Reply
  • 

    lisa

    08/10/2009 at 5:58 pm

    Chris

    You are right -our personalities and situations do seem very similar, and we are both asking the same question: is it over?

    I haven’t argued, ‘lost it’, rang him, written to him, gone to his house etc. All the things he probably has expected me to do. Which gives me dignity and I keep reminding myself that no matter how bad I feel on the inside, outwardly I am not losing my self esteem for him.

    I followed some good advice and looked up the following book and this is a really insightful summary:

    http://www.cyberparent.com/abuse/book-verbally-abusive-relationship-long.htm

    This explains and rationalises everything he said to me in the one and only text conversation we had since I last saw him, 5 weeks ago. The text conversation was 4 weeks ago – full of sarcasm, supposed humour, belittlement, disregard and ignorance for my feelings and apology. He enjoyed it, he really did. And at the end he told me to ’smile’. Because he wasn’t being nasty, I ‘was just interpreting it as nasty’.

    This simple summary has made me question if I really don’t want it to be over. Is this just a pre-cursor to more of the same or worse besides?

    It’s a shame because he was, before all of this, the perfect companion, confidant, lover. He even threw back in my face the fact that his mum died of cancer in the exact same way my mum did – it was the anniverary of his mum’s death the night he sent me the sarcastic, cutting texts. When I said I hoped he was ok because I knew what day it was for him, he pretended he didn’t know what I was talking about and then said ‘oops forgot, always do’. This very thing is outlined in the link above.

    Have a read and let me know if you recognise any of these behaviours…

    Lisa

    Reply
    • 

      LL

      08/11/2009 at 1:32 am

      1. Withholding: a purposeful, silent treatment.

      2. Countering: a countering of your ideas, feelings, and perceptions, even going so far as to refute what he misconstrues you to have said.

      3. Discounting–a putdown of you or something you hold dear.

      4. Blocking and diverting–this is a sneaky, covert way of violating your dignity.

      5. Accusation and blame: generally involves lies about the partner’s intentions, attitudes, and motives. The author states that accusation and blame is present in all verbally abusive relationships.

      6. Judging and criticizing: lies about your personal qualities and performance.

      7. Trivializing and undermining: abusive behavior which makes light of your work, your efforts, your interests, or your concerns. The abuser attempts to dilute meaning and value in your life. Undermining might occur when your partner laughs at you, for example, when you burn yourself cooking. It is also jokes at your expense. Undermining is occurring when you feel a “so-called joke” is mean rather than funny.

      ———-yeah I know these all!
      Be strong, stick to your guns, you’re not crazy!!!

      Reply
  • 

    Trudy

    08/17/2009 at 11:49 pm

    When you ask if it’s over, are you asking about the other person in your relationship? If that is the answer you are waiting for, it’s not up to me to decide if that’s what I think they mean. I don’t even think it is up to you to decide if that’s what they mean. You must decide if this kind of treatment deserves you attention at all. Is it over for you? I don’t mean if and when they come back and talk, but right now.

    I think the biggest mistake is to wait and wish and what if yourself. We all wish things but it is ineffective and you never get what you want or need from hoping and wishing.

    If you do not get any response what are you waiting for? Do you think they will come back and it will all be forgotten and never happen again? And if and when you let that happen, then you have just taught them how they can treat you. Learn the personality type and look all over again would be my advise, especially if your not Married! And age can mean nothing….maturity is all in the mind, and some people never learn.

    Reply
    • 

      lisa

      08/20/2009 at 6:35 pm

      Hi Trudy,

      When I asked is it over, I meant between me and him not he and this other woman. I know I have no control over that, in fact I don’t even think about that. In all of this, the thing that bothers me the least is his involvement – to whatever degree – with someone else. Maybe because I’ve been through the ‘other woman’ scenario before.

      I know this behaviour deserves no attention. As far as his thinking must go though, I’ve given it no apparent attention at all. I’d love to know what he thinks of that – he will have been expecting texts, calls, voicemails, maybe a trip to his house… but nothing, he got none of that. Maybe he’s just relieved and feeling fortunate!?

      Honestly, before I found this site, I believed (and still do really) that he will never make contact again and that his silence is just an indicator that he wants no more to do with me. Think it best that I stick with this for my own sanity – no more waiting, wondering, analysing. But it doesn’t make me feel better, just a bit worthless and ashamed.

      I hope some of you have had some positive turnaround news these past few days xx

      Reply
      • 

        Trudy

        08/25/2009 at 10:42 pm

        I really meant that it is all in what you think. I can’t tell you what that should be. I would definitely move on and feel proud that I am strong enough to do so. There is NO shame in it! You may not feel better later but now you stand a chance of feeling great in the long run, which I’m sure you won’t if you hang on. And certain behaviors like you have described of his shouldn’t be ignored but not put up with at all. You build up yourself and your own self esteem someone else WILL recognize it. It will be worth it whether alone or with someone, honestly.

        I’m proud of you just for realizing your need to move on. For some that is something they are afraid of most. Take courage, we are on your side.

        Reply
        • 

          lisa

          08/26/2009 at 5:25 pm

          Thanks Trudy, I really appreciate your advice.

          My dignity and self-respect are first and foremost. They are the main reason, I suppose, that I had to confront him about the text messages I found in his phone from someone else. I know some women who would have said nothing and just hung in there, hoping he would change and afraid of the consequences of confronting him.

          Yes, I need to rebuild my self esteem and sense of worth (quietly) and not contact him. I’m already proud of myself for retaining my dignity by, in his eyes, walking away and not looking back. It stings to think he has forgotten I ever existed but I take some comfort in believing I may be be conspicuous by my absence (no emails, no calls, no texts) and am NOT the ”boiler” he called me in our last text exchange. I hope he feels an idiot and ashamed for saying those things to me,

          I have no idea how to spot and/or avoid the narcissistic, passive aggressive types I seem to be drawn to. If anyone has any advice/tips for me and others here, it would be great if you could share!
• 

  lisa

  08/09/2009 at 4:27 pm

  thanks zahn for yr comment. Before i decide to send him a txt along the lines of debbie’s suggestion, could it be that his silence, sarcasm and more silence is his way of ending things with me? As cruel and undeserved as that may be. What is his endgame.

  Reply
• 

  Chris

  08/09/2009 at 5:34 pm

  I have found that if the silent treatment has been going on for any length of time, sending a text or e-mail that you feel will make you feel better–only lasts for a short time. You will feel better probably because deep down you are, once again, expecting a response. Then, when it doesn’t arrive, AGAIN, you have to start all over. Not only are you saddened by the lack of response, AGAIN, you are disappointed with yourself.

  Reply
• 

  Debbie

  08/10/2009 at 2:54 am

  Hi Lisa.

  I have just read back your original post and how he came to be ignoring you in the first place. It looks to me like you caught him red handed with the text from another woman. Firstly he minimised your feelings and made out you were making a fuss out of nothing which is wrong. Then he went on to pretend everything was ok, as soon as you were out of sight he starts giving you the silent tratment. It looks like he is dealing with this like most PA people do.

  They do something which is offensive, rude and demeaning yet if you confront them about their behaviour they turn the whole thing around and it becomes about you.

  What he is doing is not taking responsibility for his actions and punishing you for bringing the issue up to him.

  My hubby is a master at doing that!

  He truly does want you to grovel. He is wanting you to ring and tell him how sorry you are for looking at his phone with the promise you wont do it again, not once, not twice but a few times. He is probably sat there justifying all he has done and convincing himself youre the bad guy.

  Reply
• 

  lisa

  08/10/2009 at 6:40 pm

  Hi Debbie,

  In your experience, with your hubby, do they get better or try to get better? What is the motive – attention, denial of feelings?

  He knows I do not do grovelling. I’m plain not the type but had it not been for hynpotherapy, finding this site and people to talk to, reading on the subject.. I may have caved in to my anxieties and said something ‘grovelling’. My last text, 4 weeks ago (in the aftermath of his sarcasm when I was still reeling from the shock) I simply asked if my apology was accepted.

  I’m getting better, I can feel it. And it is in the form of knowledge, knowing that name calling and belittling and silence are forms of verbal abuse. And that is intolerable and unacceptable.

  Wonder how long he will sit there waiting for me to crawl back. Or will he be the one to crawl in the end?

  Reply
  • 

    LL

    08/10/2009 at 10:46 pm

    Oh Gosh Lisa, your guy must have a telepathic link to the guy I was involved with. You know what, I now believe that guy loved me as much as he possibly could at the time, which was not a lot. It wasn’t enough for me, that’s all I know. Some of these guys have had parents who smothered them but abandoned them, whereas I came from a background of just pure abandoning (orphaned suddenly). By smothering but abandoning, I mean that their mothers emotionally used them as little husbands, clinging to them when they should have been clinging to Dad. The result is a kind of emotional incest that makes a man want to draw his partner close, but then kick her away if she’s getting too close.

    None of this is your problem and it doesn’t even play out consciously. Here’s how I handled it with my guy. Only you can say when you’re “done” and you may or may not be done with this yet depending on what’s gone between the two of you.

    Whoever said that you’ll feel better briefly if you text him, is right. You’ll feel fantastic for a little while. If he doens’t answer, you’ll feel terrible. What’s likely is that he will answer, but only on his own time, and that may take a while. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s not done dancing if you’re not. It’s a dance of advance and retreat—creating a dangerous vortex, unfortunately.

    The way I handled my relationship with the older guy (30 years…how’s that for an advantage in terms of brains, experience etc…but that’s why I liked him, too) was to negotiate everything within an inch of my soul. He wanted to sleep with me; I wanted legitimacy. So I finally made a deal with him: for every encounter in the dark, we had to go “out” on a date. He claimed to be messed up about our age difference (though he had dated younger women before) and also said that if I had him, I wouldn’t want him; he said he would end up in a wheelchair (his health was up and down) and that I would cheat on him with a younger guy. @$$H()Le
    …..but maybe he really believed it. Whatever the case, he didn’t want to invest “emotionally” in me, just wanted to get in my pants. I said I had my own priorities and if he wanted to make a deal, a date for a roll in the sack, then we could talk.

    And so, we dated. And rolled in the sack, and had beautiful times and though I consider it was a groupie relationship, that doesnt’ make it less beautiful. I think I’m extraordinary enough that I changed him, and he changed me. He told me, “you live in a fantasy world,” and in many ways, he was right. He had wisdom for me, and I benefited from that—he also started up dating someone else again, and there I drew the line.

    You don’t know what the story about the other woman is, but maybe if you all are going to talk, that’s obviously the big issue. You want to know what’s going on there, and you want honesty. I know exactly how you feel—eviscerated….that’s how I felt..I felt as if he had burrowed into my heart, made himself at home, held me so tight and whispered so heartbreakingly about his deepest secrets, that when he betrayed me it felt as if I was a shell of a spirit just hanging in the wind. I loved and hated him. I felt used, but also felt that he really did love me. I felt seen, but ignored. He left me with a lot of empty space, time on my hands, lonely saturday nights (God, Saturday was the worst day of the week for me, for years—–knowing everyone was out having fun, and knowing that even if I went out to have fun, I would be wondering: where is my beloved? Where is he? Who is he with?)—-it was grueling—but somehow I stayed in it for four years, and negotiated and renegotiated. After the first year or two, I stopped calling him completely or initiating contact. And he would always come back, and say just enough to make me love him again.

    And also, when I would tell him, “this is not love on my part–this is obsession, it’s sensory deprivation, it’s sex masquerading as love,” he would become furious. Why? If he was using me, why didn’t he just laugh it off?

    Because, I think, for all of us who have been damaged emotionally, it’s complicated. It doesn’t have to mean he’s bad, or crazy, just that he can’t deliver the communication you need. My relationship cost me dearly–it was like getting myself deeper and deeper into debt, I felt I was using some kind of emotional credit card, because the more of myself I gave him, the less energy I had for me—work, life, friends, art, everything. I continued to pursue it because the compulsion was overwhelming and I felt I had to find out why, what the answers were.

    And the answers I got were worth it, because I’ll never, ever do it again. I think I needed to go as far down that road as I did, to find out there was nothing at the end—really nothing. To this day I really don’t know how this person views our former relationship, but I consider it a gift: because after that, when any man showed any sign of waffling, I called him on it immediately and if he turned it around to blame me, I was gone.

    But that was me then, and you now, you’re in that terrible place where the only thing which can bring relief is this person, this man, picking up the phone and making contact with you. Every day, every minute he leaves you hanging, it’s more power to him and more heartbreak for you. Do they plan this? I doubt it. Do their minds just shut down like an overloaded emotional circuit breaker?

    That’s what I am inclined to think. That’s not to excuse him. He knows he owes you an explanation, and he’s not up to it. He’s all messed up over it, though, I’d bet, and without knowing him better, you can’t know the nature of his feelings. You can always text or call him, and see if he’ll talk, but you’ll feel better if you wait. The longer you wait, the better you’ll feel….so it’s a choice of long term vs. short term. The power dynamic is such that if you call him, you are playing his game; if he calls you, he puts himself at your mercy by admitting he has feelings for you, and feelings are not something these guys feel safe with!

    So, you get to suffer! Lucky you, because if you stay on to play with him, this will not be the last time he does this. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.

    My heart goes out…and what a cool board this is responding to this post, this is what’s so great about the internet. When I was going through this I had no one to turn to so I read books. One good book was ‘how to break your addiction to a person” and another was “obsessive love” by Susan Forward, I think. You can probably get either one for a penny, on Amazon (3.99 shipping) well worth the investment.

    What helped me the most was realizing that I wasn’t the only one this happened to. When you’re getting the silent treatment you feel invisible and completely alone. But you’re not. It’s a terrible illusion. It’s like looking at the world through a window in hell. Getting out of hell takes love—you can always get love and understanding from others if you look, you can find it here with us online, or from friends, it’s everywhere. It’s the only thing that will pull you through is hearing others’ stories and believing us when we say, this does not mean you’re nothing, no one, invisible or unimportant. That is hell’s illusion forcing itself upon you in the silence. It isn’t true. It may feel true, but it’s not.

    Reply
  • 

    Debbie

    08/12/2009 at 5:15 am

    Hiya Lisa,

    My hubby goes in fits and jerks with the silent treatment and he doesnt always do it. 80% of the time he does. The older he gets the worse it becomes and the less he is willing to compromise or see things from others perspective. As they say you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.

    Every single conversation we have together he is looking for ways in which i could possibly be attacking, accusing or blaming him for something. Asking how his day at work has been is acceptable but if any more questions are asked, such as what time did you manage to get your lunch today, he looks at me with a frown on his face and asks “why do you want to know” as if by asking this question i am accusing him of doing something wrong. He constantly makes me feel terribly uneasy about asking simple little questions that actually mean nothing. Its very draining.

    He is very much a person that loves his own company and can sit for hour after hour fixating either on the computer or the tv. In between that he rarely speaks and when he does talk about something its never open for discussion. Showing an interest or asking questions is totally out of bounds unless your willing to face the consequences of being given the silent treatment for stepping over his boundaries.

    If he is unhappy with one person at home, he is unhappy with everyone!

    He doesnt like his own mum very much but has her over for lunch every month. Once she is here, he ignores her and refuses to interact with her on any level. She becomes very bitter and takes it out on me because i dont think she dare confront her own son. She is very nasty, sarcastic and patronising towards me but never in earshot of my husband. She waits until he has left the room and gives me both barrels. Should he make an hot drink for me or dry the dishes she calls him “slave boy” and laughs at how he is not manly enough to stand up to me! Is she joking? I just made a sunday lunch, cleaned the house, done a pile of ironing!!!! and because he lifted a finger to make a drink he is my slave! Annoying!

    He uses the silent treatment with anyone who dare confront him about his behaviour or anyone who he perceives to have done him wrong.

    Reply
    • 

      lisa

      08/26/2009 at 5:38 pm

      Hi Debbie

      Have things improved with your hubby since your last post?

      Hope you are well x

      Reply
• 

  Chris

  08/11/2009 at 1:44 pm

  Hey, Lisa. I read the link you suggested. Thank you for the information. However, I suppose because it was too early in my “relationship”; the behaviors mentioned did not apply “yet”. I saw red flags which indicate the possibility of them in the future though. We were still in the stages of being ever so polite and dreamy. This is why I think that when I expressed my feelings about his less than socially accepted behavior-he did a vanishing act.

  On a different site, regarding silent treatment, a man had an interesting theory. I do not remember if he was a professional or a blogger. In any event, he said that when someone retreats and behaves the way these people have, something has happened between you that has been so upsetting to them that they cannot cope. He said, try to remember not the event that transpired before the “cut off” but the emotion of the event. This is what led to their retreat. Whatever emotion was being experienced by them was what triggered the retreat. The emotion was so painful and/or overwhelming for them emotionally that they had to disappear. It was so bad for them that they cannot face it, deal with it, ADMIT it.

  It helps me to realize that this is not about my weakness. I do not have a problem facing issues. I did not run away. I did not hide. So, actually, we are not reacting to their actions-it is the other way around. Basically, I decided when his behavior was not acceptable and chose to mention it (kindly and maturely). This is what caused the separation. The silent treatment came as a result of my decision. I did not cause it-it was is reaction. Kind of high school, but “I broke up with him”, if in fact we are over….. sounds silly, but the spin that their silent treatment puts on the situation would make it seem like they are rejecting us. PPLLEEASSE! It seems that whatever happened, it was big enough to have impacted them very strongly! Their silence is then, actually, quite transparent. Imagine how they must have been impacted to react so extremely. They are vulnerable and need to hide??? Hello!? The punishment does not fit the crime. Sort of makes you feel sorry for them. If they cared so much that you could do this to them, what does that say about their silent treatment? They are acting like it did/does not bother them, when in fact it was bigger than they could face. If something affected them so greatly, must have meant a great deal. You meant a great deal-the relationship was important.

  I am not a professional, so I hesitate to say this, but your situation does not seem over. Unless, as you said, you chose it to be. Sounds like you have taken the high road all along the way… not demeaning yourself, not begging, etc. I, too, feel like even though I have reached out (too many times), I have never been unbecoming.

  Whatever the emotional hot button I pushed, unknowingly, it was one that he could not accept. For whatever reason, he has chosen to disappear. Must have been an awfully bad one to have been a deal breaker. Wow, few weeks after saying he was falling in love and desperate to be with me, then my standing up for myself was a deal breaker? Hmmm, maybe his declaration of feelings/love was not true? Either way, I am trying to remind myself, on those days I want to reach out AGAIN, I have to respect his choice. Whatever his reason, he has chosen not to want to speak to me again. You cannot force someone to want you.

  And, like you, I ask myself if all the positives aren’t outweighed by this personality disorder? Over time, I would probably want to end such a relationship.

  How long have you been seeing him?

  Reply
• 

  Chris

  08/11/2009 at 1:58 pm

  Something I learned, too……

  When someone leaves you, you are left with YOU. They do not get you. They are left with themselves. All your charm, all your beauty, all your wit, all your energy and your love is still yours. You keep it all-it’s yours-it is YOU! Nobody takes that away. How lucky we are. You shared some of your love and yourself with them, but they do not leave with YOU. You are left with all your wonderful gifts. You get to be left with YOU! YOU! They, leave with themselves and their gifts. You shared your gifts with each other, but no one can take who you are with them when they go.

  Reply
• 

  Catherine

  08/11/2009 at 8:47 pm

  I’m gettint the silent treatment from my husband. It is day one for me in his latest episode. He blames all of his negative actions on his panic attacks. He doesn’t have a good relationship with anyone in our family or outside of the family for that matter. The silent treatment doesn’t bother me as much now as I thought it would. It’s been going on now off and on thoughout our thirty-eight years of marriage. I will never let him control my emotions like that. In the beginning it was hard, but the only one he ends up hurting is himself because he’s missing out on some intelligent grown-up conversations. His number one priority is himself. It is always about his feelings and never anyone else’s. In his mind he is always right. He doesn’t like to compromise like an adult. It is always the other person who has to compromise. If the other person doesn’t, in this case me, I am quote, “DISRESPECTING HIM”. He is always trying to manipulate what is said to benefit himself and if that doesn’t work, in comes the silence.

  Reply
• 

  LL

  08/11/2009 at 11:27 pm

  “so it’s over because he has not deemed me worthy of that respect and does not care, after everything we shared, whether I’m okay about it. I wouldn’t expect that from an acquaintance never mind a friend, family member or partner. So no. No way back.”

  THAT’S IT.THAT’S THE ESSENCE OF IT! beautifully put thank you.

  i am so grateful for this board! you guys rock. seriously.

  and this is fascinating, the following; i will be thinking on this now for a while.

  “On a different site, regarding silent treatment, a man had an interesting theory. I do not remember if he was a professional or a blogger. In any event, he said that when someone retreats and behaves the way these people have, something has happened between you that has been so upsetting to them that they cannot cope. He said, try to remember not the event that transpired before the “cut off” but the emotion of the event. This is what led to their retreat. Whatever emotion was being experienced by them was what triggered the retreat. The emotion was so painful and/or overwhelming for them emotionally that they had to disappear. It was so bad for them that they cannot face it, deal with it, ADMIT it.”

  thanks again. really helpful all of this.

  Reply
• 

  LL

  08/12/2009 at 12:15 am

  Well I do have to respond to this because I’m not sure if it applies to my situation, actually:

  “the spin that their silent treatment puts on the situation would make it seem like they are rejecting us. PPLLEEASSE! It seems that whatever happened, it was big enough to have impacted them very strongly! Their silence is then, actually, quite transparent. Imagine how they must have been impacted to react so extremely. They are vulnerable and need to hide??? Hello!? The punishment does not fit the crime. Sort of makes you feel sorry for them. If they cared so much that you could do this to them, what does that say about their silent treatment? They are acting like it did/does not bother them, when in fact it was bigger than they could face. If something affected them so greatly, must have meant a great deal. You meant a great deal-the relationship was important.”

  see, the thing is, even after all these years i really don’t know what my guy was thinking, the guy i obsessed over so much. my obsessing made him uncomfortable, and i could tell why: because i was projecting so much power onto him, but it wasn’t about him; it was about my compulsive re-enactment of my past, which was aggravated by his compulsive re-enactments. so our ghosts were dancing with each other, but it was all moves and countermoves, calculation, intensity, heartbreak and the agonizing relief that came when he let me back in his world. it was like a drug for me. and i felt that come between us and ruin the integrity of the relationship.

  because, see, even if i did mean a lot to him, the way he was acting made me feel like i didnt’ mean a lot to him. and that killed me, really killed me. it didn’t help to think “it’s all about him” or “he must really love me, but isn’t acting like it” but all those thoughts cycled through over and over, uncontrollably, and i could not get it out of my brain. and i knew that unless his behavior changed, unless he was motivated to change it, that this was always going to evoke the obsession and trauma response.

  i couldn’t get him to stand guard between me and his ghosts, and he couldn’t trust me likewise. but we tried, i think we really did.

  but, that’s just what i think. it’s entirely possible that he regarded our intrigue as just one of a rich tapestry of the many wonderful women he’s known. he was a guy who loved the ladies, and was too much of a loner to stick with one, at least emotionally. he had girlfriends, but he kept them on the edge all the time, a terrible place to be. i couldn’t do it. so i just stopped one day, two days after he finally told me “i love you.” first time in over four years. he was just trying to see how far that would get him. mabye it was a nice gesture to tell me that he still cared, even though he was going on to date someone else. whatever the heck it was, i knew that the whole thing took up so much energy that it was leaving me cold.

  it felt boring, i wanted a different ending and couldn’t get it with him. what it means to him or meant? he always told me how special i was and how no one had ever made love to him that way before, and how beautiful i was…and when i was right there with him i felt so beautiful and funny and fabulous that i loved being with him; but he withheld himself from me so much that the overall effect was a great price for a little fabulousness. the lonliness on the other side was too much.

  i really wonder. did it mean all that much to him? i just don’t know.

  Reply
• 

  lisa

  08/12/2009 at 7:36 pm

  Hi Chris

  To answer your question, we had our first date in January but didn’t start seeing each other till May. He was oh so keen and tenacious at first then distanced himself, then came back and distanced himself again. Eventually he told me I was a great girl and normally he would have been ‘in there like a rat up a spout’ but he was wary of a relationship. I told him I was wary of a relationship too after my last one (which was long distance but he was unfaithful to me all along which is something I did share with M – lets call him that).

  Anyway, we kind of let things take their course and without talking about ‘us’ or what was happening, we got closer. He went out of his way to reassure me he was seeing no one else, and we talked many times about how his ex (of 9 years) cheated on him constantly throughout, how he admitted having a low opinion of the women he had been with and how he enjoyed how I was so different. I didn;t want to change him, see him every 5 minutes, tell him how to live his life etc. We talked and laughed like friends, I love his sense of humour and he loves mine. So I knew that I had to give this one a go and trust him like I had never been hurt ever before. And I did, to the point where it seemed too good to be true.

  So in all, we’ve been ‘together’ only 2 months but have known each other nearly 2 years (we met online and talked occasionally and it was always friendly, platonic conversation.

  Like you Chris, we were in the early stages and I would have seen no red flags but for the last text conversation where he pretty much ticked all the boxes.

  I texted him the day I last saw him, it was that very morning where I discovered the texts from another woman. He spent 2 hours holding me hand and comforting me, trying to explain and tell me it wasn’t what I thought and admittedly, though I wanted to believe, I just couldn’t and that may have had an effect. Especially as I just clammed up and could not speak, even as I left him standing at his front door. I texted later to say ”was I really a silly a*se overreacting? Today has been a real b*gger”. I was in enormous pain but wanted to play it down so as not to scare him away. No response.

  A week later, having talked to a good male friend of mine, I texted him again to say ”Hello you. I shouldn’t have been such a mardy or worse still nosey cow. I know what yesterday was for you and hope you’re ok. Catch you soon”. Yesterday had been the anniversary of his mum’s death – an experience we both share in eerie detail.

  Half an hour later he replied. This is how it went:

  Him: What was yesterday

  Me: I remember you telling me what happened yesterday 5 years ago or did I misunderstand?

  Him: Oh no just forgot always do, Oops

  Me: oh ok, I thought that’s why you were at your dad’s this weekend

  Him: no it’s my sis’s birthday and I’m down here for a week. I’ll see her (his mum) on the telly next to the dog when I go down. (admittedly this did make me grin because I know his sense of humour and to be honest, I thought he was ‘coming round’)

  Me: Well I’ve said my bit and I was bang out of order

  Him: Yes you were its why I don’t want a relationship, women are all mad.

  Him (before I could reply): You have been reclassed as a boiler

  Me: Hurtful but I hear you (I was so hurt by this comment I didn’t know what to say and found myself just accepting his remark)

  Him: Sometimes the truth is but don’t you go stringing yourself up or hacking off an arm, you’re still ok for a bird

  Me: I’m not a boiler, just a cool bird who was hurt bad”

  Him: Equals b o i l e r

  Me: Nope, You’re just angry

  Him: Denial

  Me: You enjoyed that didn’t you

  Him: Enjoyed what

  Me: Being nasty. I’ve apologised for doing something out of character and out of line and this is what I get. I already feel embarrassed by what I did. I didn’t mean to go and like you so much, it was never my plan.

  Him: I’m not feeling nasty, you’re interpreting it as nasty. Smile.

  Me: Well it sounds nasty. Are you just winding me up?

  Him: Yes

  Me: You rotten b*gger, so you don’t seriously think I’m a boiler (thinking and hoping for a second that it WAS just humour and feeling a desperate relief that we were in some kind of talking mode)

  But then no response. I tried one last time, 3 days later with ”is my apology accepted you?”

  Nothing since.

  I would love to give all of you on here my take on your own situations but I’m so at a loss. I can’t identify with anyone who choses to ignore someone, treat them with contempt and shut them out. I couldn’t even do it to my lousy ex when he tried to get in touch with me again – I was very kind and clear that we would never be together again and wished him all the best.

  Chris, I think it’s interesting that you believe this is not over between us. I go from being utterly convinced he will never contact me again, to thinking how could he not it would just make no sense.

  I hope some of you have had some positive news or outcomes this past couple of days xx

  Reply
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  LL

  08/12/2009 at 8:31 pm

  Aw Lisa, geez:

  Him: I’m not feeling nasty, you’re interpreting it as nasty. Smile.

  Me: Well it sounds nasty. Are you just winding me up?

  Him: Yes

  Me: You rotten b*gger, so you don’t seriously think I’m a boiler (thinking and hoping for a second that it WAS just humour and feeling a desperate relief that we were in some kind of talking mode)

  But then no response. I tried one last time, 3 days later with ”is my apology accepted you?”

  Nothing since.

  what a jerk, this makes me really mad. although i don’t know what a boiler is.

  it sounds unkind, though.

  you don’t have to apologize for anything you said or did. you are entitled to be upset, anyone would be. you are entitled to be sad or ask questions if you find out in such a rough way that he’s playing flirty flirt online with someone. he knows you’ve been hurt before. i don’t see anything wrong iwith you, your questions, your behavior, or anything. it sounds to me like he’s being a total jerk.

  you ARE a cool bird, you’re a magical bird and he’s not up to it. one of my girlfriends who had a guy who would give her the silent treatment, said, “it’s like they’re in a wheelchair and you just can’t expect them to keep up. they are what and where they are. you can’t make them be how you want them to be, and if they’re crippled emotionally, they can either motivate themselves to meet you in the middle, or not.

  sounds to me like he’s not willing to meet in the middle, talk without insulting you, he’s gaslighting you by belittling your perceptions and insulting you by calling you a boiler, whatever the h. e. double hockeysticks is.

  on you like a ‘rat up a spout?!!!”

  oh boy…..

  LIsa you are golden, don’t let this guy tell you otherwise. You are going above and beyond making peace, establishing nonthreatening communication, and all he can do is smack you around verbally and then ignore you……this is about HIM not you.

  You have to take care of you, which is what you’re doing coming here and talking and reading about it and seeking answers. You’ll be fine but it hurts so badly I know. I have so been there and it’s like the worst thing in the world. It’s like there’s one person who can make it better, and he just simply refuses.

  I had one great girlfriend who used to call me on the phone in the middle of the night because her guy would jerk her around just like mine was, and her sage advice to me at one point was, “follow your instincts. if he’s like this now, he’s gonna be like this. if you think you can take it, if having this problem come up again and again is something you can accept, then by all means keep in play. at some point, you’re going to get a bellyfull—you’re going to be sick to death of it–and at that point you’ll be done.”

  it did take me many years to get a bellyfull. over a decade. it took a really long time to break my pattern of remaining in play with people who manipulate, insult and ignore. i stayed sane by making a lot of great friends, who kept me company when the guy wasn’t available which was a good bit of the time.

  the back and forth intensity can really keep you hooked in there. that rush of relief to be talking again is something to powerful that i lived for it…again and again. when my guy was loving me i was so happy, so complete, so energized and up and on. but then it would swing back the other way. going between these two extremes was really exhausting but i didn’t know how to stop it.

  but, once you understand better what’s going on, and that you’re not alone, it happens to so many people, you will at least be able to understand that this is nothing to do with any supposed defect in you. it sounds like you have been super duper cool and understanding.

  boiler. good grief!

  Reply
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  Chris

  08/13/2009 at 5:28 am

  Hey, Lisa! Hope you are well. So good to hear from you.

  Wow, great post. Lots of info. So much to process…….

  One common denominator with these narcissists types seems to be the “push-pull” game. Keen and tenacious then the vanishing for periods. The dance takes on a familiar pattern. They seem only to be able to handle small doses of emotion-even smaller than “healthy” men. They participate, pull back, absorb and return. Seems, too, like fantasy is the acceptable comfort zone. Reality-being accountable, questioned or just plain “busted” sends them running. They are still quit adolescent in their behaviors.

  Your text conversation, like so many text conversations, took some weird turns. I could see, without trying to make excuses for ANYONE, where there could be room for misunderstandings, misinterpretation of tones, or extra sensitivity. Again, not trying to justify bad behavior-ever. It is just so difficult to interpret texts. Also, sarcasm and/or dry humor via texts can be tricky. That text episode was just plain out of sync. That said, he was definitely trying to get your attention by poofing into thin air.

  Yet, I must say, the end of the conversation was plain creepy. Men know that it is a really “hot button” for anyone women to be called a boiler. It’s so insulting to any woman and not very clever for any man to use that reference. How creative…NOT! Besides which, how dated is that dumb reference. It’s about as original, insulting and ignorant as when a man tries to dismiss a woman’s emotions as her PMS.

  Anyway, lots of emotions and intentions swirling around your text conversation and by the time it got to the end, it was so , possibly, misconstrued that is just got out of control. Nonetheless, his behavior was bad. Sometimes, when men are at a loss, losing ; they behave like little boys in the schoolyard-throwing rocks! Then, running away. Also, sounds like he tries a little hard to be cool and jerky.

  Lisa, looking at your conversation, seems like you let him get your goat . He seemed to sort of enjoy it! He was definately “pulling your chain”, “rattling your cage”. It sounded like he was almost teasing you and you didn’t give it back, understandably. Pony up. Get your confidence back up. We wear our heart out on our sleeves. Nothing wrong with being loving and open and honest. Maybe, though, we just need to hold our cards a little closer to our chests and not let our vulnerability be so exposed. Not saying we should be dishonest or fake or play games, but be more careful of our hearts. So, maybe being a little more light hearted? I am not criticizing you. Not trying to suggest you second guess yourself. Just trying to help. Listening to my own words as well. I’m no expert. Just a woman like you, who has been very hurt and confused by someone. I have let my Mr. Wonderful know how hurt and vulnerable I feel now. And, I wonder if that invites them to be more lousy. They misinterpret our kindness for being door mats? It’s like that push-pull stuff. When I was more aloof he was hyper interested. I got more interested and vulnerable and he got more cocky. Not cool. Not healthy. I don’t know that I want to spend time with someone who acts more like an adversary than a friend.

  I think they are so confusing because they are confused. The more I think about what happened in my situation, the more I realize how odd my Mr. Wonderful’s behavior has been. No mature, healthy MAN acts the way he has. Healthy, mature MEN do not avoid socially acceptable conversations/behavior. Normal people say goodbye. Normal people would say, “hey, it’s just not working out for me.” It is not as though they have said it several times and we won’t go away. They have not even said it ONCE. Mature MEN do not tell someone they are falling in love and spend endless time convincing you of this and then run away when you look cross-eyed at them. We cannot get our heads around their behavior because it is not how normal people behave–people who are not teenagers. If I was told goodbye, I would be able to move on. I would still be sad, but I would not try anymore and I would not feel like I was left in a dark room with no door!

  A counselor told me that I will not get that closure. He will not give it to me. When I asked why, she said because it leaves things open. Even though I have asked him to please say “goodbye”, he will not. She said if he did, then I would get my closure and be done. I would go away. He wants to leave me “on the hook”. She said he likes knowing that I am pining for him and that he probably has several women doing the same thing. He needs this adoration/hanger on-ers. Hmmmm. Sounds less and less attractive, huh? She also said that if I cease contact, I will most likely hear from him.

  Wow, it is hard to take a step back and really look at them objectively when you had so much chemistry and connected on so many levels. We, too , enjoyed each other’s humor. I do miss him and would be lying if I said that I did not want to resume. Yet, when standing back, I can see his “issues” more clearly. Not talking daily helps to see more objectively, too. And, the posts I have read from women who have been living in the drama cycles with these men…. silent treatment, sadness , loss then exhilaration of being graced with their contact? Over and over again? Wow. That would be the definition of abuse for sure. (LL had a great post.)

  So, great chemistry, humor, banter, sexual attraction, physical attraction, intellectual stimulation, friendship? It’s all great, but at what price? I do not know the answer and my mind is not made up. Someone said, if and when Mr. Wonderful calls, I would fold like a cheap lawn chair! lol So funny! And, maybe so true. Hmmm?

  Before I became so “attached”, Lisa, I was not so into him. He was super into me. Then, I came around. We were on the same level for four months. Then, the big declaration of his feelings (and mine). Couple of weeks later, we had a disagreement and poof! It is helping me get my confidence back-remembering how I perceived him in the very beginning. I felt like he was not in my league. Not to sound bitchy, but I just wasn’t that into him at first. I do well to remember this reality.

  Be good to yourself and remind yourself of all the things he liked about you. Remember all the things he found attractive about you. Your humor, your beauty, your charm, your kindness, your mind, your love. His being gone does not mean he does not still think you are all those things. Not that you need his validation to know these things are true of yourself, but so that you remember that he is not gone because you are not beautiful, sweet, smart, funny, loving, kind, charming and hot! Those things are not gone. They have not changed . You did not change. Most likely, he still thinks you are everything he did before, he just chooses not to be where you want him to be. Giving us the silent treatment assures that they will still be in our heads. You don’t have him right now, but……HE DOESN’ HAVE YOU EITHER!!!! Right? Right!

  Hard to believe that the same men that were so loving and seemingly open and honest could be so cruel now. Unless, they were lying all along. The counselor said that Mr. Wonderful meant what he said (probably). That, sadly, he thinks he meant it. To whatever degree he is capable. He just can’t do what it takes to follow through when the going gets real. One dose of criticism and his feelings are just that-only feelings. Probably why he is still single. He says he wants to be in a committed relationship, but wanting one and doing what it takes are DIFFERENT. Kind of sad. And, it is hard to respect a man who runs from something he wants when you say “boo!”

  When was that last contact? June/July?? Did you believe his situation with his ex? her having cheated? I do.

  Big P.S. YOU ARE SO NOT A BUNNY BOILER! Don’t let that bug you. He is being soooo manipulative. He knows you are sweet and all men know that comment is below the belt and lame. He does not really think that you are acting like one. He’s probably hoping you will start acting like one. But, YOU HAVE NOT! It’s almost funny. How stupid. He says it to bugggggg you! Please. Besides which, what an ego booster for him. He probably likes to imagine you are as distraught as the nut in the movie and obsessed as she was. Ego. I guess that would make him as cool and hot as Michael Douglas! HA! HA! Whatever!

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  Chris

  08/13/2009 at 5:34 am

  Melissa:

  After your “deal breaker” event, did you ever contact him? Or, have you just let it go? I am curious because I wonder what would have happened if I never responded after our disagreement. I apologized (for the first time) just an hour later. Instead of letting him think about what he did, I apologized. He should have done the apologizing. I just didn’t want the possibility of a total split to happen to I tried to smooth over it–LET HIM OFF THE HOOK and he took the offensive maybe. Hmmmm?

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  lisa

  08/13/2009 at 6:38 am

  LL, Chris

  Thanks so much for your comments. Yeh he caught me on the back foot when I was in a very low place, and thinking about it, if I had been in a lighter mood I could have taken his texts as him teasing me. Maybe I had pretended so well in my first text to be casual and cool. But when I called him jokingly a rotten horrible b*gger for winding me up but he didn’t ‘banter’ back.

  I do believe him about his ex, I really do. I even believe that this other woman now is really what he explained her to be. I do believe as he said that he is ‘flattered’ by her texts and that he knows it was wrong of him to keep in contact with her. If he had just agreed to keep talking like this – after I had left that morning – we would or could be ok now.

  It really makes no sense. I just ‘feel’ like he hates me and holds me in utter contempt. For what, I’m not sure – checking his phone? Not being overly emotional as he is used to other women being? Not begging and pleading?

  Last time I saw him Chris, to answer your question, was 4 July. Then a text conversation a week later. My hypnotherapist told me its a shame he couldn’t be sitting with her instead of me! Her advice is not to make contact, men like the chase and if he ever intends to come back (which she thinks he probably will) it will be on his terms. How lucky he gets to call ALL of the shots!!!??!!

  I know I’m not a bunny boiler and so does he. He used the term because he’d used it as a funny reference to something we were talking about early on in our non-relationship (I’ll call it that). I think he expects women to turn into something horrendous – as is his experience. Even this ‘other woman’, I’m sure she is the one he told me he was seeing last year at some point and he ended it ‘because she was the kind of girl who wanted to argue when she was drunk, would hit him when he didn’t argue back, always had issues and was never happy unless there was a catastrophe in her life’. He called it tedious. Pretty sure it’s her. She must have begged to be let back in…

  So why on earth, when I’m the woman he says is SO unlike any other that he has known, is he treating me like this? On our last evening together, he took me to see his brother play in a band and he has an enormous amount of affection and respect for his big brother. I was honoured he had introduced me into his circle. This reinforces my belief that this ‘other woman’ is really what he explained her to be – I can’t see him introducing me to someone he respects enormously if I didn’t have a bit more ‘meaning’ for him and how he would look a total *rse to his brother if he knew he was messing women around.

  Girls, we could go round in circles on this for years couldn’t we. The weight of thought we are lending this is totally incommensurate with the thought they are giving it I bet.

  My best friend interpreted his texts in a totally different light and told me to stop analysing and just see it as him teasing me. So you’re right, it was half me and half him in the ‘blame stakes’. I could have handled it differently, I’m so aware of that.

  Chris that’s an interesting last post to Melissa. Basically it’s the same thing I did in an attempt to reconcile the situation fast. I too wonder what would have happened had I not apologised… would he have not taken the offensive?

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  Zahn

  08/15/2009 at 4:36 pm

  I think that most men want a woman who will continue to accept the horrible treatment they dish out while saying” Great honey you are right can I have more?” Ah no way is this going to fly. We are individuals with needs as well and should be respected and treated as such. Do’t accept it girls.

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  lisa

  08/20/2009 at 6:41 pm

  Hi Trudy,

  When I asked is it over, I meant between me and him not he and this other woman. I know I have no control over that, in fact I don’t even think about that. In all of this, the thing that bothers me the least is his involvement – to whatever degree – with someone else. Maybe because I’ve been through the ‘other woman’ scenario before.

  I know this behaviour deserves no attention. As far as his thinking must go though, I’ve given it no apparent attention at all. I’d love to know what he thinks of that – he will have been expecting texts, calls, voicemails, maybe a trip to his house… but nothing, he got none of that. Maybe he’s just relieved and feeling fortunate!?

  Honestly, before I found this site, I believed (and still do really) that he will never make contact again and that his silence is just an indicator that he wants no more to do with me. Think it best that I stick with this for my own sanity – no more waiting, wondering, analysing. But it doesn’t make me feel better, just a bit worthless and ashamed.

  I hope some of you have had some positive turnaround news these past few days xx

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  Chris

  08/23/2009 at 4:05 pm

  I’m out! Moving on. Finally, accept the concept that he is the weirdo. Yet, I will continue to remember the good parts fondly. Wow, first experience with silent treatment. Never knew how awful it could be. Never knew all the psychology behind it either. Whew! Too weird.

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  Debbie

  08/24/2009 at 3:29 am

  When he gives me the silent treatment i usually remove myself from his presence and go sit in another room to write in my journal. I still make him his meals and include him when i make hot drinks.

  I have just endured another 4 days of the silent treatment because i tried to have a conversation with him about his mums attitude towards me when she visits. Rather than back me up he decided to put his mothers rudeness back on my shoulders and basically blamed me for how she behaves. So it turns out that when she comes to my in my kitchen with her empty food plate and slams it onto the counter and says “thee plates theeeere” and doesnt say thankyou for the meal she just ate i am supposed to smile at her and think “awwwwwwww”.

  Well yesterday afternoon he decided to have a go at me for journalling and basically said its a sign of having mental health issues! No-one and i mean no-one he knows writes like i do! He wont talk about issues and resolve them, he wont engage in any conversation where he might have to at least accept some responsibiilty for his actions and lack of communication but i am still supposed to sit there and smile sweetly.

  He says i shouldnt go to him with problems. I should stuff them inside and keep him out of it. Deal with them myself just like he does. OK! because according to him this is how a marriage should be!

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  lisa

  08/24/2009 at 5:17 am

  I just didn’t know there were so many nutcases in the world masquerading as normal people until I found this site.

  Chris I’m glad you’re ”outta there”. Debbie, how the hell you put up with him and his mother I really don’t know – they sound like mother and son from Psycho (pre her being stuffed in the attic).

  I still haven’t ‘caved in’ and apologised for what would be the third time for something that really he should be apologising for. The longer I leave it, the more I think ‘well if I do cave in, him not responding will bother me less than it would have done x amount of weeks ago’. And I’ve also read some of the Patricia Evans book on Verbal Abuse which helps and I would be ready for another bout of his behaviour.

  Debbie, read this book. It’s hard to define exactly what someone’s words and actions are doing to you when they’re not ‘blatantly’ offensive or overtly aggressive. But you just ‘know’ there’s something wrong and it hurts like you’ve been punched in the guts. This is how I felt during the the first and (luckily) only time he has done it but it made me sick to the stomach and hurt my feelings like never before. With all the logic and reasoning in the world, his outburst has made me feel ashamed, small, non-existant, unimportant. Yet when I explained it to my best friend, she couldn’t see anything too negative in what he said and told me to stop analysing so much!!!

  Even a friendship shouldn’t be like that Debbie, let alone a marriage. My heart goes out to you – if this one dose from a guy I’ve been dating has had this much effect on me, I can only imagine the effect your husband has had on you and the conditioning you are going through. What is truly sad, and it reeks that it seems to be an inherant human need, is that our desire to reconcile, resolve and reunite with them is proportional to the amount of silence and ‘rock throwing’ they dish out. They must have learnt this somewhere – I refuse to believe they don’t know what they’re doing.

  Good for you that you are getting this out into the open and recognising it for what it is.

  lisa xx

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  Debbie

  08/24/2009 at 7:48 am

  Living with these kind of people is equivalent to and as tiring as trying to take down mount everest with a tooth pick!

  The stupidest thing though is i actually went into another room and shredded every single one of my journals and trashed them in my temper!

  His words “mental health” and the pure frustration i was feeling at that moment in time left me feeling totally out on a limb. Its amazing what power words hold isnt it? To the outsider i have no doubt what he said would have just come across as an opinion or construstive critisim. To me it was more than that, it felt more than that, it invoked anger, rejection, sadness and abandonment in me.

  Once they were shredded i went back and asked if we could talk about why i journal and once again received the silent treatment.

  You cannot win with these people. They rule their own distorted vision of how things should be and suck the likes of you and i into the void with them.

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  Debbie

  08/24/2009 at 8:17 am

  And that is just the thing, Debbie … we aren’t trying to win, we are trying to come together because we are on the same team, but they don’t see that.

  I watch the posts here … I have a feed that delivers them to my emailbox … and I know the confusion, sadness, frustration … but I am removed from it now. I know everyone here will have to heal in their own way, in their own time and I am cool with that. It’s just that I can FEEL what you’re going through … people that are attracted to sickos like this tend to be very empathetic, and even with my healing … even though I am no longer so empathetic that I feel other’s emotions over my own … I do have the memory.

  I did the same thing with my journals, back in 2005. I was re-reading years of them and the common thread was the silent treatments that I had endured since 1983. I felt ill. I still was not out of denial … I still believed that if I was patient, he’d come around … but things were stirring inside … and I called my mother, to ask how to destroy them (I did not have a shredder). She told me to soak them in a large pot of water, until the ink and glue all ran together … and then put the congealed mess in the garbage bag. She said the water would be symbolic of me cleansing myself of the years of abuse. It felt good.

  Read, read, read about co-dependent traits. There is a website that you can find if you type the following in your browser: You Are A Target, Not A Victim. Read about verbal abuse, narcissistic personality disorder, sociopaths (not psychopaths … they’re different), ambient abuse … just whatever you can get your hands on. It won’t all apply to you, or him, but the information will help you to put puzzle pieces, that have been floating around your brain, together … to form a picture. Eventually, I hope, like me, you will wake up one day and say, “It’s him. It’s not me. I am done. DONE.”

  It’s been almost 2 years and 8 months since that day. I knew there was no turning back. Overcoming the visceral pain of shame and humiliation, degradation from the sex that came afterwards … the anger, rage and utterly hopeless broken heartedness … took time. But I am so far from that time that it almost seems like 1983 -2007 was an out-of-body experience.

  We have our sons and so we will be forever united as their parents. I no longer have strong feelings about him or our marriage. I love him like a brother that has a debilitating mental disorder … I am patient when he is a jerk … he is giving one of our sons the silent treatment now but he’s dealing with it until he returns to school. There is no way for me to completely exorcise him … but it’s not necessary anymore, because I am at peace.

  I wish this peace for all of you.

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  Debbie

  08/24/2009 at 9:17 am

  Thats exactly it. I am not in it to win it, i am in it to be happy, for both of us to be happy!

  What i want is for him to be there, to be able to sit and have a conversation about anything i or he perceives to be a problem, give his opinion, get his point of view across and say exactly what is on his mind in an honest fashion without getting angry. I dont want to be the person he thinks “what she doesnt know doesnt hurt her” i dont want to be the person who sits here thinking he only converses with me on a “need to know basis” and i dont want to be that person that feels like i am constantly under punishment for doing god knows what and having to constantly watch my “ps” and “qs” just incase i offend him in some way.

  I dont want to edit everything that comes out of my mouth for fear he is going to hold onto it like a Kuala to a eucylyptus tree and shake the hell out of it. (think thats walking on eggshells isnt it) lol.

  When he puts his arms around me i want to feel love and not the feeling of being used. I want to know he is there for me no matter what.

  My mum died 6 years ago and boy did i need him. I was depressed and at an all time low. How did he respond? with utter contempt and anger for me because i had spent 3 years nursing her till she took her final breath! My depression and sadness became all about the neglect i had thrust upon him and why should he be there for me when i had spent the previous 3 years being there for my mum!

  Why i still want this man near me is totally beyond anything thats understandable. I am gonna read up about co-dependence!

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  Ava

  08/24/2009 at 5:16 pm

  The silent treatment is one of the best and easiest way for me:

  - to not go postal on people. When somebody angers me to such a point that I give that person the silent treatment, it just means that I’ve just avoided myself a criminal record.

  - to get rid of people who have been going on my nerves for a long time. yes, it’s my way to tell them: “You don’t exist, you’re nobody and you aren’t worth wasting my breath.”

  - to say: “No way I’m gonna stoop to your level. I refuse to let you bring out the worst in me”

  I don’t care being on the receiving end because I know how to use it too.

  I don’t resort to the silent treatment with people I really care about. I usually cool off (sometimes, it may take months) and always confront them afterwards about what happened. But people I really think they’re of no use in my life? Yep! They do get the silent treatment.

  I’ve noticed that most of the time, people who are hurt by the silent treatment are those people who go around being elephants in china shops when it comes to the way they handle their relationships, and then shower you with “I’m sorry”. Well, think before acting, be more considerate and bear in mind that if you’re always apologizing, it might mean that you’re making no efforts whatsoever to change your ways. Besides, after a certain time, apologies become overrated with some people. So, once again, the silent treatment is the only way they understand that they went too far and there’s no coming back this time.

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    My only defense

    08/29/2009 at 5:53 pm

    Ava, I agree with you. There are these people who talk behind your back, and then pretend to be friendly with you. And they don’t get it. The only thing that registers to them is when you give them the silent treatment, then they want to be like, “oh what do i have to do to end this.” Well lets see, you could stop talking behind my back and say it to my face! Now I’ve read a lot of your posts, and there is always 2 sides to every story. All I am saying is to check yourself, maybe you are the one that is enticing the silent treatment.

    And I have had the silent treatment done to me when I apologized a million times from the heart. That person is wrong, but the way I look at it, they don’t deserve to be in my life if they are like that.

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  lisa

  08/24/2009 at 5:58 pm

  Wow Ava. You’re a real credit to your sex and to the human race.

  Thanks for your insight and for giving us all a brief glimpe into the mind of an abusive, passive-aggressive.

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  Samantha

  08/25/2009 at 2:24 am

  Thank you everyone ……that is all i can say for now.

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  Samantha

  08/26/2009 at 3:40 am

  Today is Wednesday, since Saturday after a argument my husband and I had , he has just shut me up and out completely. SUnday morning , after i got home from gym, got my daughter dressed and he was busy getting dressed and called her , cause he was planning on taking her with him but never said anything to me. He tells her to greet Mommy and she kisses me ( she is only 2 years old). I was fine until i realised that he was using her to punish me. I was away tuesday and wednesday that week for work and just wanted to have some time at home and relax. I told him that he is not taking her with him , his reply ” i am not staying at home, i want to get out of this house” . I told him to go if he feels he has to leave but he is not taking her with him. He shouted back at me ” to shut up , you are a fucking bitch , don’t fucking talk to me”. all i said was ‘ that u can call me wotever you feel like , but you are not using her to punish me. I tried to keep her calm coz she was bit upset , I was holding her in my arms at the time and he stood there looking and shouting at me. Strangest thing was , I was calm and did not want her to hear him call me all those things. He greeted her and left …got back later that afternoon at about 4…
  he is still not speaking to me. So many things have happened in our relationship – both of us are responsible for so much.
  I made a promise that I would not allow my daughter to be exposed to our arguments. Last nite while bathing her , we say and while getting her dressed in her pj’s , she looked at me , and just hugged me so tight…my heart melted. She whispered , “Mommy’s Kayla…”. My husband some into the bathroom while we were busy , got something and just left …she just stared at me. My heart breaks because she is a victim in this more that he will ever realise. i can handle the resentment , the name calling …but seeing her face and the innocence being lost…..
  I was lying in bed last nite, and prayed to God to please just keep me calm for her sake….but i will not allow him to continue to use the tactic on me , to get me to beg and plead , cry…
  I considering calling my minister later todat.

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  lisa

  08/26/2009 at 5:35 pm

  Thanks Trudy, I really appreciate your advice.

  My dignity and self-respect are first and foremost. They are the main reason, I suppose, that I had to confront him about the text messages I found in his phone from someone else. I know some women who would have said nothing and just hung in there, hoping he would change and afraid of the consequences of confronting him.

  Yes, I need to rebuild my self esteem and sense of worth (quietly) and not contact him. I’m already proud of myself for retaining my dignity by, in his eyes, walking away and not looking back. It stings to think he has forgotten I ever existed but I take some comfort in believing I may be be conspicuous by my absence (no emails, no calls, no texts) and am NOT the ”boiler” he called me in our last text exchange. I hope he feels an idiot and ashamed for saying those things to me,

  I have no idea how to spot and/or avoid the narcissistic, passive aggressive types I seem to be drawn to. If anyone has any advice/tips for me and others here, it would be great if you could share!

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  Chris

  08/28/2009 at 1:53 pm

  So, in retrospect, I have realized that even though the “silent treatment” was used as a means to avoid any exit conversations; it was probably never intended to be a form of punishment or control. It was just a cowardly way of “breaking things off”. So, I finally get it. I was dumped. Silent treatment is used on someone you are in a relationship with (albeit a bad one). If you have been dumped, it’s not a silent treatment…. I guess it’s just over. No goodbye, sorry, you made me mad, blah, blah…..it’s just a clean escape. Kind of cheap. Makes me think so much less of him . Thought he was a really substantial MAN. In your late forties, are there really MEN who just disappear without saying anything? Isn’t that what young men (like 17) would do? WTF?

  Lisa, how long has it been since you had contact either way? I decided that 8 weeks of no response to my messages meant it was not silent treatment but over . After all, we were only in a “relationship” for five months total. It’s only been two weeks since I sent my last (unanswered) message. In my case, I never let more than two weeks go by without firing off another message. So, eight weeks, and probably a total of eight attempts to apologize or ask what the heck was going though his head. Last attempt, two weeks ago. I’m done. Though none of my messages were undignified or embarrassing, the mere fact that I kept trying, without any response, for eight weeks is enough. I did, however, have to feel like I said everything I felt necessary That way, if it was over, I felt like I was done and satisfied with having said everything on my mind. My comments were always nice, mature, appropriate for the situation. So,though I am hurt and wish it were not over, I really can’t wonder if I should have said something else or whether or not it is over. Time for me to get a clue. As I said in a past entry, I’m out. He has been, obviously, for 8 weeks.

  Reply
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    lisa

    08/29/2009 at 8:58 am

    Chris, that was my question all along – is/was this really the silent treatment? So many posts on here are from (mainly) women who physically live with the silent treatment day in, day out from long term partners and spouses. Then there is the out-of-sight silent treatment which, in the age of mobile phones and texts and emails that go ignored, is still none the less the silent treatment in my mind.

    I’ve been doing more reading on this and, from what I can gather, the ‘disappearing act’ as a means of ending a relationship is generally reserved for people in their late teens and twenties. Or just plain crazies. It’s not really the behaviour of mature life-experienced people with compassion and first-hand knowledge of how it feels to be betrayed and hurt (I speak of M in this case). Unless anyone on here has any other insights or experience of this to share?

    It is now 8 weeks today since I last saw M. And 7 weeks since we last had contact via the text conversation I transcribed in an earlier post. He ignored a text I sent him the day we last saw each other, Then a week later responded within 30 mins to another one I sent (which set off the unpleasant, possibly miscontrued conversation above) and 4 days later when I asked if my apology was accepted, he didn’t reply. And I haven’t sent anything since.

    It’s difficult to figure out because he didn’t go completely no-contact. From friends on here who have helped me through this, they see his behaviour as manipulation, teasing, push-pull. It has now been weeks since either of us has made contact and I do hope he feels stupid and ashamed for calling me a boiler when I plainly am not, and for expecting (possibly) me to apologise repeatedly for something that, yes, I did do but that in the end was nowhere near what he was guilty of.

    Chris, if I were you, I would keep up your decision to make no more contact. I have come very close to sending something else many times but couldn’t take the possibility/probability that he wouldn’t respond or would respond with something scathing and dismissive. I had some good advice in an earlier post that the longer I leave it the better I will feel, and I won’t be playing any power games. Who knows, maybe I’ll send one weeks from now just to see how he is – I don’t know. I’m very conscious of not making it worse by trying to stay in his life. If he wants to talk, see how I am, know what I’m up to, he knows where I am. He was terrified of a relationship all along even though we had inadvertantly got into one together – i doubt his fears have changed and maybe, in his mind, contacting me would mean admitting feelings he never wanted to have.

    I can’t know what is going on in your man’s mind but I do know how you feel and how you are thinking. My advice is to start from week zero and call this no-contact from now on. It will possibly jolt him into a ”why is she not texting me..” position and he will, if nothing else, be curious. I know M will be curious, and also peeved that I didn’t turn into some agonised nutter chasing after him.

    Give it a few weeks, resist the temptation to text ANYTHING and stick with it. You will feel better that if you do cave in, honest. And you will be more conspicuous by your absence, than by showing up on his phone every now and then. Maybe they are just plain confused and feeling just as crap as we are but in a different way and for different reasons. Let silence do its work for now.

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  Chris

  08/28/2009 at 2:13 pm

  Ava:

  I so appreciated your entry. It was helpful and seemingly honest.

  I am curious. I understand that there are different reasons, for you, to “ice” someone. Sometimes, you want to get rid of someone you could care less about. But, if it is someone who has upset you, yet you don’t want them out of your life forever………
  if while you were giving them the silent treatment, they left you messages apologizing/reaching out would this only make it worse. Is it best to leave you alone during your period of anger? Of course, I am referring to a person who has not been on your nerves for a period of time either.

  What is the quickest way to end the ST assuming it was not a dump?

  Thanks, Ava. I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts. I think you have been somewhat brave to be so honest. I appreciate the insights. Who better to learn from about the ST? I have asked so many people what they have thought, but they are not familiar with giving the ST.

  Thanks, look forward to your comments.

  Reply
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    Lisa

    09/03/2009 at 8:48 am

    Hi Chris

    How is your no-contact going? I must admit, I almost caved in and sent him a text message the other day that sounded casual and chirpy but something deep down stopped me. It does, every single time.

    Do you – or anyone else on here – think I’m being stubborn? Am I still dancing some kind of dance by staying silent like he is?

    What I have been doing is reading up on narcissism. The silent treatment is – in many cases – a symptom of narcissistic rage (worth looking up). There are lots of good links on google.

    Sulking and silent treatment are classic behaviours apparently. Kind of frightening to be on the receiving end of someone with a personality disorder.

    Chris and others, I’d be interested to hear if you’re also getting the silent treatment from someone who may, like mine, just be a narcissist.

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  Danielle Pichalski

  08/30/2009 at 7:33 pm

  My mother has always given me the silent treatment. Once for 11 months, just for talking back ( I was 36 years old) This time it’s been 4 months so far. I always tend to feel like maybe it was me that did something wrong and I always made the amens,but in my heart I know I was right. She said some things about me to my teenage daughter and when my daughter got home she was acting different to me. I had to pump her and ask what was going on. I got out of her that her Grandmother said a few things about me and her stepfather. I was hurt and angry and did not call my mother for 2 weeks. When I did call I got my father on the phone, he said my daughter said she was unhappy with me and she can live there with them. My daughter is not unhappy, she is spoiled. I have sent a mothers day,fathers day and a card saying i missed her and have not gotten any responce. My sisters tell me she will not speak to me until I apologize….Apologize for what???? I am hurting really bad, it affects my everyday life, I am finding it hard to move on,,,,

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  Debbie

  08/31/2009 at 7:52 am

  When an acquaintance or a co-worker has behaved poorly, I have backed up and treated them with only civil politeness. That is what adults do to back-stabbers, gossipers, sabatogeurs, etc. *shoulder shrug* THAT is not what we are talking about here.

  We are talking about spouses, partners, parents, siblings … the people in our lives, the primary relationships … that manipulate and bully us. There is a HUGE difference.

  I don’t give the silent treatment to anyone, ever, because I am above it. I do not act like a pouting, petulant child because I am an adult. I have said to my mother, when she was out of control, “I love you but I don’t like you right now. I am hanging up. Goodbye.” and we had a cool down period before resuming the conversation. That is not the silent treatment either. Silence because you have nothing to say, but you are pleasant to whomever you come into contact with, is not the silent treatment either. The Silent Treatment is hostile … it is bullying … it is childish.

  Add up all my months-long treatments in the first 23 years of my marriage (the divorce is not final but I moved out), and I have been abused by The Ice Man for nearly five years. Count all the days I tiptoed on eggshells in between the silent treatments to keep him happy so it would not happen, and the entire relationship was abusive. When *friends* gave me the silent treatment, I just did not speak to them … I did not try. I said to myself, “Ohhhh … you are one of those.” and it did not hurt me, after all the practice I had dealing with my husband. One tried to reach out to me a few months later with a Christmas card. I did not respond. It’s been nearly sixteen years. *shoulder shrug* Oh well. Nothing lost there.

  Grow up. If someone is treating you poorly in a work environment and there is no avoiding professional interaction, than keep them brief and necessary. Be civil. They’ll get the message, I assure you. If the relationship is one that can be dismissed, than dismiss it. If you’re called to the carpet, respond honestly, “When I found out you were a backstabber, I realized there was no friendship. There is no reason to talk to you. We are done.” That verbage is a bit harsh for me but from what you’ve shared with us, it seems pretty tame for you. At least it’s real and responsible.

  The majority of the people that post here are not those … those people that you describe. They are trying to have dialogue with people that are seriously damaged … incapable of honest, open dialogue that might hurt but is honest and necessary. They know, in their heart of hearts, that unless the ambient abuser accepts responsibility for what s/he’s doing, there will never be a healthy relationship, so they come here for understanding by people that have suffered the same … to gird up their loins and do what they must do.

  So … you … that would play childish games … be on your way. Accept responsibility for perpetuating the problem and know that you will never create peace in your life because you are drama … you are crisis … you are tiresome.

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  Debbie

  09/02/2009 at 3:18 am

  Hiya everyone!

  I gave ujp my journalling for a week and eased off of him. Pretty much left him to his own devices last week and didnt try to engage in any general banter with him as he told me his day job tires him out and he doesnt want to come home to me chitter chattering on about nonsense!

  Its been a quiet week overall. He has sat at the pc most evenings playing his online game and basically doing all his chatting to his online buddies!

  The weekend came and i suggested we did something together being as he hadnt been to work and wasnt tired! No No No he had plans of more online gaming.

  I asked if me quitting my journalling for a week and being more reserved had made him happier. Yeah he said, he had been able to do as he pleased with no signs of unhappiness from me.

  Back to journalling for me i think!

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    Lowflyin Lolana

    09/09/2009 at 12:18 am

    Wait, are you the same Debbie that moved out?

    Or do we have two Debbies? One who journals and the other who moved out?

    just a little confused…

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  Lisa

  09/05/2009 at 6:32 pm

  Hi to everyone,

  Well tonight, because he had been on my mind so much today, I accidentally send him a text that was meant for someone else. It said nothing really, was just about a scuba dive to a dive club friend.

  I immediately followed it up with another saying ”b*gger that wasn’t mean for you. The dangers of texting and driving, Its lisa, how are you?”

  That was just an hour ago. No idea if he will reply. Oddly, I don’t feel like I’ve caved in and broken a 2 month silence – had I purposely sent him a text that was intended for him, maybe I would feel that way.

  Oh well. The silence has been killing me slowly. I’m already conditioned enough not to expect a reply. But if he opened my messages expecting to see a messed up, apologising barrage then he will have had a surprise.

  If he isn’t man – or even human – enough to reply then this will really have to be it for me. It should have been long ago. I’m still proud of myself for not caving in well before this through loneliness and anxiety. No doubt I will check my phone when I wake up in the morning and feel a punch in the guts when/if there is no reply. But I’m kind of ready for it. And my pride is still intact.

  Time to find a real man I think (anyone got any tips on what one looks like?!)

  lisa xx

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  Lisa

  09/06/2009 at 12:01 pm

  Hi Sas,

  ”a**holes of the first order”. How right you are!

  I hope today’s another good day for you. If you’re like me, you’ll have cr*p days and then extremely ok days and so it goes on. Finding this site gave me somewhere to come and talk and vent and share with other people who would understand and identify, and reinforce the message that it’s not about us, it’s THEM.

  My silent treatmenter, when I first met him, referred to both his ex’s as ‘nuts’ and ‘psycho’. This was a big red flag for me, I spoke to my friend about it and even said to her ‘look I’m uncomfortable going on a date with a man who says his ex’s are psycho”. I got talked round into considering maybe there were in fact psycho. God, I wish I’d stuck firm. Like yours has labelled you ‘psycho’, mine tried to label me a ‘bunny boiler’ and you are right – it is to silence us. And it worked – because of it, I’ve been living in a sort of deadzone which is the best way I can describe it. Without this site, I would have caved in and apologised over and over again and made things worse for myself.

  To be honest, my friends (ironically the one who persuaded me his ex’s may have just been psycho is included here) were either of the attitude that I should just stop talking about it, or just accept that he wasn’t interested or that I’d brought this on myself. They actually made me feel worse. They just didn’t get it. At all. So if you start feeling like this when trying to talk to your friends – which I hope isn’t the case – stop talking to them and come here instead.

  I can really identify with your situation: The kids help him justify his unavailability; he disappears for long periods of time then reappears sounding normal; he will probably have made you think he was the injured innocent party in his previous relationship; mine never had the chance to openly flirt with another woman but he did tell me that another ex of his (labelled ‘intense and mad’) would start an argument with him in public because he was supposedly ignoring her and talking to other women; he is so entertaining and charming he always seems to be the life and soul of the party… Wow, do they all dance to the same twisted tune? Their mask starts to slip and slowly we are shown the real person underneath…

  Don’t apologise again, Stick to your guns. Come on here and channel everything to people who will validate your feelings – don’t waste them on someone who will shove them back in your face. Unfortunately I accidentally sent him a text last night meant for someone else and he hasn’t acknowledged it but then that is probably a good thing. I really hope he doesn’t think up something scathing to reply though.

  It does feel like punishmen doesn’t it. And our only crime is wanting to love which is the whole point of life itself. It is only through this whole experiene that I have truly understood that the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s fear. The love I felt for him, for life in general, for myself, any love I thought he had for me has all been turned into fear. The silent treatment is terrifying and deliberately so.

  I found a great site by accident last night: http://www.lisaescott.com. There is a link on there to her book on how to spot a narcissist. You’ll start to understand what your guy is – a narcissist – and know that you are not alone and that this is not about you.

  Another book I recommend is ”What Smart Women Know”.

  I love what you said about our psyche protecting us. On good days, our psyche is winning. Let’s hold firm and be here for each other till the good days so outweigh the bad ones we don’t even care anymore.

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    Sas

    09/06/2009 at 5:49 pm

    Hi Lisa,

    Cheers for your support, its soooo good to feel like someone understands. My friends are a bit weird about the situation also.
    They’re all a bit bewildered by the ‘psycho’ label too, as i am one of the most easy going people around (too easy going, it seems). To be fair, he hasn’t applied it to me full on, but uses it as a threat – i am ’starting’ to sound psycho, etc…. It is interesting to read Ava’s comments who seems to rationalize the behavior, justify that it is because we, the receivers are behaving badly in the first place. I don’t see how asking my B/F to be respectful, expecting promises to be met, and wanting to have the emotional safety to be able to express my needs and wants is behaving badly. Sure the after the fact crying and pleading is bloody awful, but I bet that’s a behavior that most of us do not recognize in ourselves – it is desperate, and is prompted by the cruel and twisted actions of our ‘loved ones’ (geez that seem such a contradiction in terms). The whole point of the silent treatment – is to get one’s own way and to take power in the relationship. It is employed primarily by abusers. However, it can be seen as a part of disengaging from the relationship (that’s why its so powerful as a tool) – for eg, I could be seen to be doing it now too….given that I now don’t want to speak to him!

    I read somewhere to watch out if they call the ex psycho as it usually is a label directed at whoever is closest – esp if he tells you at the beginning how different you are to her (the psycho) and slowly you ‘become’ the nutter. I said to mine once ‘what is it that she and i have in common – YOU’. No responsibility taken on his part of course.

    Lisa, your ex will probably be reveling in yr misdirected text – any attention is better than no attention (WE know that). I think its important not to tell ourselves that love is not there, was not ever there, because it is and was – but these guys have to control it….they mix love with power and the power struggle then takes over. Don’t even consider that you were ‘unlovable’ – a psychotherapist’s dream scenario. I don’t know you, but i bet he knows that he was lucky to have had you. So lucky he has to take control and not leave it up to luck!

    I’m wondering when mine will eventually call – ha, if he does. I’m curious as to what fantastic excuse he’ll come up with. He does not do ‘hearts and flowers’ make-up stuff. Its just blame blame blame.

    Another strong day. Yee haa !! I hope yours is too. I will def check out the narcissist notion – definitely.

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      Lisa

      09/07/2009 at 5:12 am

      Hi Sas

      God I wish today was another good day. That stupid mistaken text I sent and the follow-up one explaining it was just me and asking how he was, have had their toll. I didn’t think it would feel like 8 weeks ago all over again, but it does. He hasn’t replied and I bet he’s loving it that he gets to ignore me all over again.

      Yes the silent treatment is part of disengaging from the relationship. He has ‘killed’ me for feeling hurt and for showing him my vulnerable side and for trying to reconcile in a very undemanding way. Part of me hoped he would have replied – what, 8 weeks down the line you would think he would have grown up. It was, unfortunately, never about feelings or connection for him. I was a disposable commodity all along and he has gone out of his way to make sure that is just how I feel. So I probably am the psychotherapist’s dream client. The ‘me’ he knows is funny, laid back, unconventional, warm… and the best he can do is kill me with silence.

      It is punishment. I made the mistake of emailing my friend this morning to tell her about the text and how he hasn’t replied. The best she could reply was ‘So sorry for that, mine on the other hand won’t stop texting me and I really don’t know if I want a relationship’. I actually loathed her for about 10 seconds when I read this. I’m trapped in my own private hell and all I get is a glib comment that she turns around to be all about her. It’s as bad as his contempt towards me.

      Why would I still want a man who is this unkind? I can’t conceive ever of wanting to hurt him, ignore him, not listen to what he had to say, not care that he might care about me. The turnaround from being the man I was falling in love with, to a man who couldn’t care whether I live or die is like being in a nightmare. What can I possibly learn about myself other than that I deserve this.

      If only I hadn’t sent that text. Life shouldn’t be like this should it.

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      • 

        Lisa

        09/07/2009 at 10:37 am

        Hi Sas,

        I’ll be realistic with myself and share the things I should have heeded more wisely at the very beginning. It’s hard to cram 6 months into a short space so a lot of this will be anecdotal I suppose.

        I met M online, a long time ago, and we would just talk. He was still living with the woman he referred to as his ‘angry keeper’; he was like a mysterious point of refuge for me when I wanted to talk to someone warm and kind; he would occasionally ask to meet up but I never wanted to. I wasn’t going to get involved with an involved man and worse still, someone I met online who could be god knows who in real life.

        Anyway, a few months after my split from a previous relationship (the man who taught me the push and pull of the silent treatment), I caught up with M online again. He had moved out of the house, bought his own place and was officially single again. A few more conversations down the line, we exchanged mobile phone numbers, swapped photos and things began to take a deeper and much faster course.

        Our first phone conversation lasted over 2 hours, we didn’t talk about relationships or ex’s really, just life in general. Maybe I ignored the red flag of ‘all my ex’s are nuts’ but it did make me wary. We shared the same outlook on life, the same sense of humour; we just clicked. I was still reluctant to meet up – my fears of getting involved, fear of rejection – but he was so tenacious and determined and ‘different’. Eventually we went on a cinema date – he was the perfect gentleman, we talked for a couple of hours before and after the film, I had never met such a disarming, funny, handsome man. I love his sense of humour, and he admits to loving mine. We didn’t talk about another date there and then, it just felt natural to say goodnight and speak soon.

        Well a week went by and I hadn’t heard from him. I had no real idea of ‘dating etiquette’ so it didn’t bother me, more I was just aware of the contrast between the intensity of before we met and now. OK, so he isn’t interested I thought but we’re still cool. I read something in the book I was reading at the time about something he and I had been chatting about so (unthinkingly) I sent him a text telling him about it – a funny, laid back text. In 2 minutes I got a reply from another number saying ‘’you have been classed at this stage as non boiler and may have my personal number’’. At first all I saw was the word boiler and froze. Then I re-read it. And it bothered my slightly but then I put it down to his sense of humour. So I replied I was glad to be classed as non boiler and would like it noted that I don’t do tears, scenes or amateur dramatics either. This prompted a 3 hour text conversation well into the early hours. He was back to the tenacious, affectionate man from before who was so seemingly taken with me and my heart soared.

        Then nothing for days. Stupidly (I now realise) I texted him saying ‘’you have been classed as non BOYler and may have my private number’’. To which he replied ‘’cool, where you been’’ and then he didn’t reply to my response.

        From this point on, he wavered between keen or removed or unbothered
        So I just left it. Then days and days went by and he reappeared. I would be so ‘RELIEVED’ to hear from him, I didn’t care what it said – he was thinking about me.

        So really, admitting it to myself now, I was on a sort of mission to recuperate the man I had met and the one I wanted him to be. We didn’t meet up again for weeks, only exchanged texts.

        One exchange of texts was so contorted and cold, I couldn’t make sense of it. He said I was talking in riddles, followed by ‘are you menstruating’. Then he apologised for being angry saying I ‘’was just getting a slight lashing’’. His ex had told him earlier that evening his little boy was too busy playing Xbox with her new partner to come speak to him on the phone. He should never have taken it out on me – in his shoes, I would have been happy and comforted to know there was someone there for me no matter how my ex made me feel. I told him that people like her who cheat and wound make me sick even if he does still have feelings for her, and how in turn that had a knock on effect on me because in all his anger I couldn’t tell if he even liked me or not. And he didn’t reply.

        I thought I’d overstepped the mark saying that so a few days later I apologised (haha). He came back immediately with ‘’hey babe, don’t apologise. Say and ask what you want xx’’. This culminated in us arranging to meet up for coffee. Before we got there, he texted me saying ‘so we going to have sex in your car’ and because his sense of humour sometimes gets in the way of me reading something literally and taking it as him going comically over the top, I dimissed it. Actually I replied ‘’god no, I’ve just had it cleaned’ and he thought that was funny. So I took his original comment to be off the wall humour. We met up and he was his ‘usual’ self, laughing and talking. He never once attempted to kiss me though. He loves my hair and would ask if he could just touch it, which laughingly I said of course he could. And he would say how lovely my eyes were, or my skin. But never tried to kiss me. We talked and laughed for a couple of hours and went our separate ways.

        I thanked him next day by text for a lovely time. He replied saying ‘’Yes, glad you had a great time. Next time we will have to f*ck’’. I was furious. And taken aback. There was humour, then there was just plain un-funny. I didn’t say anything though, I just ignored it.

        My friend asked me how things were going with M, and I tried to explain best I could. She thought maybe I was giving ‘unbothered’ signals because I can come over too laid back or cool and maybe he was trying to stir me into a reaction. I really didn’t believe in my heart of hearts that I had been this way with M. She persuaded me to send another text just saying ‘hey what you up to’. I liked him but couldn’t figure out for the life of me just WHY I liked him when he was throwing all these weird, disrespectful spanners into the spokes.

        I wanted to sit down and talk with him, properly. Not just laugh and talk about us, life, things in general but really talk openly about what we wanted, without pressure or expectation. So I said in my usual laid back tone when he replied saying he was just at home ‘hey put the kettle on then’. Five minutes later I get this:

        ‘‘Look I’m just a little wary. You’re a great girl and normally I would have been in there like a rat up a spout but I don’t want a relationship. I’ve been tied down most of my life and I’m enjoying my free time. We can meet up, f*ck around, whatever. I know I’m a tw*t but I’m just enjoying my free time’’.

        So all the BS of ‘I love having a girlfriend’, making me understand and feel like I was special, the fact that in the very beginning I said I wasn’t interested in a casual relationship and he appreciated that… I couldn’t even hold the phone steady let alone reply. I couldn’t believe what I’d just read. So I called him, I wanted to hear him say it. And he passed it off as being just his sense of humour; he was wary of a relationship and thought we were heading that way and he didn’t want any ties but he just liked me. Ties??? He said he was even scared that I might look at his photos from time to time as that consisted of ‘having ties’. I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I would not send my life underground by having meaningless sex with ANYONE, and if he wanted to live in the dark and stifle his soul then he could go on his way.

        He asked me to forget what his text said and come round to his house. I was so desperate to see and hear him put things right that I went. Our connection is such that we talk and laugh like life-long friends/lovers, all the contorted/mixed signal stuff he says in jest (or not) via text goes out of the window when I’m with him. Like all of his ‘off’ comments are just misconstrued in my mind – he is the total opposite in person. His Jeckyl and Hyde is reserved for ‘in person’ or ‘via text’.

        I didn’t intend to stay the night but I did. Maybe I was feeling reckless 3 days before my 40th birthday. But I did and it changed things for the better. Or so I thought.

        Without going on too much anymore, he has intermittently withdrawn and pulled me back in for months. The longest time was 2 weeks which I didn’t see as the silent treatment because the last time we were together, things were absolutely great. The two weeks of silence threw me though and I was just so relieved AGAIN to hear from him. It was a simple ‘hey’ that arrived at 3 in the morning.

        I knew something was wrong all along, even if I never wanted to admit it. If he wasn’t chasing me, a man as arduous and outgoing as him would probably be chasing someone else. When he went awol for two weeks and then resumed where we left off, his explanation of night shifts blending into late shifts (he’s an armed cop) and having the kids etc may have been true, but a quick text costs nothing.

        Then 2 minutes later he threw me a text asking if I’d ever thought about a threesome and did I want a real adventure???????? That was it – I rang him, wanting to know what the hell that was about. He told me this ‘chick’ would show up online now and then asking if he was interested so he just thought he could arrange something if I was interested??? I got upset. Now when I get upset, I just go really quiet and can barely speak. He apologised and told me he was being stupid and should never have mentioned it and didn’t want me to feel upset. And that I was the only person he was seeing and he wanted me to know that.

        So like the fool to my emotions and to him that I was/am, I went round to his and stayed over. The threesome thing was never mentioned again. Honestly, I can’t explain enough the Jeckyl and Hyde disparity between him in person, and him via text.

        So basically we fast forward to the last time I saw him, and the morning I decided to check his texts. And I found texts from another woman, and also an unnamed number saying stuff like ‘but I’m so horny, come round!’. My god, I’d stifled that from my memory till just now. He swore he never met up with this person but I believe it to be the ‘chick’ he threw into the conversation.

        And this is where the silent treatment, the name-calling, the contempt, the making me feel bad etc began and where my posts on here also begin.

        I have probably now outweighed the good things that we shared together with the bad/demeaning/stupid things he said. But lets face it, if the good was SO good I wouldn’t be on here would I. None of us would be!

        God, even with all this in black and white – why do I still feel cr*p?

        xx

        Reply
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  simone

  09/06/2009 at 12:31 pm

  my situation is very different. i met the love of my life 4 years ago while on vacation. he lived in new york and i in canada and he was married (unhappily but married nonetheless). anyways we became friends via email and lost contact. years went by until i called him only to find out he has relocated to florida. he was still in the situation with his wife. he stayed married for his daughter (yet wife was unfaithful up until their wedding and after). he blamed himself therefore stayed married but very unhappy and in turn became unfaithful. when i had called him two years after we met he asked me to come to miami for the weekend, and i did. from that moment we knew we wanted to be with each other forever but he had been struggling with trying to do what was right for him and his daughter. he was unhappy and didn’t know what to do. he told me that him and wife would always fight around their daughter. his family had told me many times that they should have never been married and they have been unhappy for 12 years. yes i felt guilty but i loved him. i knew i should have walked away but knowing he was unhappy i thought i could give him all the love he deserved because he really was a good man just trying to do the right thing. so he told his wife he was leaving, yes she was upset, said she would change but he said it was too late and had found someone that would love him and he could love back. he told his daughter and assured her that it was not her fault and that both mommy and daddy would lover her no matter what. so he left the house and stayed at a friends in florida. he told his wife he was filing for divorce and she said she would kill herself if he did so he decided he didn’t want to take that risk so didn’t file. she held this over his head for sometime but he didn’t know how serious she was since she always threatened him with that. then his company let him go and he decided to relocate back to new york since there weren’t any jobs in florida. just before all this happened, his wife just snapped and put a gun to his head right in front of the daughter ( i forgot to mention that she was crazy and this just prooved it). so he decides to bring his daughter to new york. he didn’t care at that point if she did kill herself but he wasn’t going to have his daughter stay with someone unstable. so they stayed at a relative and had daughter start school. he thought things were going to get better since he had his daughter, had a job and the could file for divorce so we can move forward. i tried to break off our relationship many times because i kept blaming myself for all of this but he and his family had assured me that he loved me very much and i was the best thing for him inspite of everything that happened. so i stayed and he tried to file for an online divorce that when wife received the papers she said she threw them out and wasn’t going to sign anything until he brought daughter back. she said that was all that she wanted and she would sign the papers. he had stuggled with this decision and let daughter go. of course she didn’t sign the papers and he was left heart broken without his daughter who is and will always be his number 1. yet he had to stay in new york and try to catch up on some bills. we would see wach other at least once a month and try to make plans for the future. i bought him a computer and web so could see his daughter regularly because i know this was all killing him. our relationship continued to grow even with all these complications. we both had to be srtong and try to figure things out. we had our second anniversary in the bahamas and if anyone would see us they would know how happy and truly in love we are. people would actually stop us and tell him not to let me go, or clap at us when they see us because we would glow at each other. but things have been so difficult. i told him that i would move to florida because i know that he will never truly be happy unless he is back with his daughter. i said i would sell my condo and by a house and all he had to do was find a job but please file for a divorce so we can move forward. i wouldn’t move right away, maybe a few more years because i have to be in canada for my kids too who are 14 and 18. when the time is right then i would move and if my children would like to come then that would be their decision. so this has also been difficult for me too. i want to be with my fiance but i cannot leave my children. we both have made sacrifices. the plan was to marry and i would still go back home because of my kids. he has made me promises that he would file for divorce but something always comes up, his car breaks down and that has to be taken care of. finally he has decided that he wants to go to night school and said he cannot file and pay tuition at the same time. he just dosen’t understand that filing is very important. he said that in the past 2 years, nothing has happened for him, he hates his job and still has nothing to offer me. he is felling sorry for himself and finds himself always having to struggle. the stress is killing him and i know he wants to make me happy. all i want is for him to file, find a job in florida and start over and have his daughter there. and when i am ready and when the time is right, then i will go there too. so the other night when he hinted that he cannot file for divore i lost it, i told him over the phone that i cannot take this anymore and i accused him of lying to me and breaking his promise. you see we have set our wedding date jor july 3, 2010 so how can this all happen if he still decides to put off his divorce. i don’t think he fully understands that with me living in canada, moving to the states will still require years. i tried being understanding and patient but i also feel that i have put my life in his hands. i cannot do anything unless he files. i don’t want to let him go and i know he dosen’t either but this can’t continue. i told him it was over and to never call me again. i know i hurt him deeply since he was planning to come here for the weekend. ( we were going to tell my family that we set the wedding date). i can’t eat or sleep and it hurts to breathe. i feel physical pain and i’m empty without my best friend. i tried calling him and texting but i have not received any responses. could this finally be the end for us. we have gone through this before but our love for one another always made it impossible to give up. my head is telling me to let him go and maybe one day we can be together and have a fress start. i sent him a text asking him to take the drive here and he did respond by saying “babe, i told you i wap”???? his text cut off and i don’t really know what he was saying. i asked him to resend but i didn’t get anything back. i’ve called but he never answered so i finally sent him a text that i wouldn’t bother him anymore. he has shut me out and i know i deserve better then that. he has been cruel by shutting me out like that. i feel like i am nothing and going on day to day is killing me. i will love him til the day i die but i have to believe that when the time is right we will eventually be together. the distance was never really the issue. i just can’t be with him knowing he is still legally married even though to him it’s only on paper. it means something different to me. i know there is no future if his past is still bound to him even if it is only on paper.

  Reply
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  Debbie

  09/07/2009 at 5:36 am

  Lisa,

  Just read your post and i want to tell you what my other half said to me on Saturday.

  Confronting him about his emotional unavailability is emotional abuse!

  When i try to talk to him about how his behaviour ie., the silent treatment and the blanking of me during a conversation hurts me, i am emotionally abusing him and he feels bullied!

  He would have left me over a year ago had he somewhere else to go because he has felt so sad in our relationship especially when i call him on his behaviour. He has felt bullied by me telling him its wrong!

  Reply
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  Lisa

  09/07/2009 at 7:16 am

  Debbie, what on earth? This is ‘projection’ at its most blatant! Accusing you how doing to him only what he is doing to you, and feigning to feel the way he knows all to well that he is making you feel.

  Would he ever agree to go get some help with this? Probably not.

  Please don’t tell me you need me or anyone else here to say you are NOT a bully or an emotional abuser. Please don’t allow him to obscure your perceptions to the point you think you may be guilty of being either…

  What the hell is wrong with these people?

  Reply
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  Lisa

  09/07/2009 at 6:34 pm

  Hi Sas,

  Before I reply in more detail, have a look at this. All of you here, have a look at this.

  It is what I haven’t been able to put my finger on all along – the explanation for the good days and bad days – the jumping between he’s a good guy really to he’s a manipulative liar. The knowing this was none of my fault and the blaming myself for bringing this on by my own actions.

  I had never heard the tem before: Cognitive Dissonance.

  http://allabouthim.com/cognitive-dissonance-obsessional-thoughts/

  Reply
  • 

    Sas

    09/08/2009 at 12:23 am

    whoa…that’s interesting. Definitely the case!! Prob why my ‘letter’ helps, reminding me why he’s rotten. Why the hell do our brains do this? I’m appalled…..

    Reply
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  Debbie

  09/07/2009 at 9:30 pm

  Hi,

  There’s two Debbies here; I am the one that is separated from her husband of nearly 26 years.

  I have read loads of stuff since coming out of denial on January 9, 2007. I’ve read about narcissistic personality disorder … which he has a few elements of but, no, that’s not him. I’ve read about passive-aggressive and, yeah, but as you all know … hostile silence for weeks or months at a time is far more than that. I’ve read about borderline personality disorder and … nah … that was not really him, either.

  I moved out a year ago, on Sept 21st. I have healed tremendously. I have to deal with him because we have children. They are young men away at college, true … but we will forever be partners as their parents so there’s no way for me to truly sever the relationship. Even if the divorce was final, my life would be very much as it is now, because I have no interest in dating yet.

  That said … something happened the other night that made me say, “Ohhhhh … yeah! What about that?” I want to share it with you because, if it applies to your situation, this may help us in future relationships.

  My son was telling me his side of the most recent episode with his father. I had heard his father’s version a couple of days before. And it hit me … for the thousandth time: my husband lies … about everything. He lies to manipulate people … he lies to make a story more humorous … whatever … he lies. Now, to some, he’s stretching the truth … or leaving out pertinent parts of the story … or using carefully chosen words to lead the listener astray … but, in my book: he’s lying.

  Well … some kind of wacky feeling started growing in me like you would not believe. This was not of the magnatude as my epiphany on January 9, 2007 … but it was pretty.damn.huge.

  On the rare occasion that I got the nerve to confront him about something horrible that he said to me, he would (1) diminish it and tell me I was making a big deal out of nothing or (2) deny he ever said it. Once, when he was shocked that I would accuse him of such a thing, I asked, “Where are you, when you are angry? Where do you go in your head?” He looked like I had just accused him of killing babies. He shook his head slowly and said, “I don’t know …” I thought he was in such a rage that he was borderline insane and developed selective amnesia.

  Now … looking back on it … I think he lies SO MUCH about SO MANY THINGS, that he honest-to-God cannot remember what he’s done. I am not insinuating that he is innocent by reason of insanity. Hear me out.

  I am wondering if we have no earthly idea of just how damaged these people are. My step sister is a pathological liar. Her dad was violent and her mom was manipulative. It drives me crazy that I can’t believe a freaking word that comes out of her mouth, but I have compassion for her because she must have been SO damaged. Something happened in my husband’s childhood … what, I could not tell you, because I don’t know much about him. I have heard stories … but he and his siblings repeat the same ones, with a twist, at all the family gatherings, so I have learned nothing new.

  So … my point is … does your hostile silent treatment giver … your boyfriend, your mother, your former best friend … whomever … tell great stories? Are they funny? I often say about my husband that he “doesn’t let the facts get in the way of a good story” and he “never tells the same story, twice” (meaning that it’s always tweaked, just a bit …) You know … it’s no wonder that he told me that I had a stupid laugh … I wasn’t funny … I had no personality … I had no opinions … Even though everyone else that knows me says the opposite

  I am not larger than life like him because, as everyone that knows me says, I shoot between the eyes … I shoot straight from the hip.

  He’s a bullshit artist and I am no bullshit.

  So … if this sounds like your person … and it’s someone that you cannot cut out of your life (like a parent or a sibling), just accept that you may share DNA but you’ll never have a real relationship.

  IF, however … it is a boy/girlfriend … and you’re healing and wondering how you can possibly trust yourself to choose better next time … watch for those stories … watch for signs that, even if they’re *joking*, that they cannot be sincere about their thoughts, feelings and ideas.

  I may be way off in left field for your situation. If so, I am sorry I wasted your time.

  best wishes to all of us

  Reply
  • 

    Peep

    09/07/2009 at 10:52 pm

    I’ve posted a couple of times here but mostly I lurk. I’m seven months into silent treatment from my fiance (ex-fiance, I guess now?) and I’d like to say that Debbie, you may be on to something here.

    When I was first getting to know my future abuser, he would tell me “true” stories that really seemed out there. First of all, this guy is no adonis. And his abrasiveness and haughty ego were a real turn off for many women. He was not a “popular” guy, I guess. Anyway, he told me several stories that always made me kind of raise my eyebrows and think “really?”. And in these stories, HE is always a hero, like the object of a powerful woman’s sexual advances. Like the female boss that grabbed his butt. Or the casual bar acquaintance (an attorney) who made suggestive comments to him. I remember once after hearing one of these stories I said to him, “you know, I don’t know any professional women who would do something like that!” And he just shrugged and said well, it happened to him. And in one story he actually saved someone’s life!

    Now I’m seriously wondering if these were outright lies. He sure told them as if they were gospel truth. And as I write, I’m once again asking myself, what the hell was I thinking, falling in love with this guy. But I still, all this time later, grieve the loss of a love I thought was real.

    Now I’m wracking my brain trying to remember if he ever told me a single story where he was a dork, or a fool, or even just an average guy. I can’t think of any!

    Now I’d like to ask you all…does your abuser have a really bad relationship with his mother and with his siblings? Mine does, to the point where he has almost no contact with them. He is very critical of them and blames his mother for many of the siblings problems. But, strangely, he speaks of his mother very sweetly and kindly when he is reminiscing about the far distant past. I’d thought to myself before that he had a real disconnect between a “good” mother that he remembers from a child’s point of view, and a “bad” mother that he remembers from an adult point of view. Sorry to venture off into arm chair psychology, but there is something really, really wrong with these guys.

    Reply
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  Debbie

  09/07/2009 at 11:14 pm

  No, his relationship with his family is not bad … however … his mom and his sisters always said that his dad was especially hard on him. Also, I have always sensed that there are some huge buried secrets … like they’ve all sworn a pinkie-pact that bonds them. Once, in a heated conversation after I told him that I was leaving him, he told me that all of his relationships were superficial … and that was the way he liked them.

  So … I suspect that he’s in denial … I suspect there is some harsh stuff in his family history, but that I will never, ever know … and at this point, I wonder if he even remembers. Maybe he just feels pain but does not allow himself to remember why.

  It’s sad, really. He does have many qualities that I admire. He is human and I never wanted him to be perfect … I just wanted him to love and accept me for who I was, like I did him … and I wanted him to share his thoughts, feelings and ideas with me. I grieve the loss of my illusion … that was rooted in the potential that I saw in him … but I now know that nothing between us was ever real … except for the two fine young men we created together.

  Reply
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  Chris

  09/08/2009 at 2:03 am

  Hi Lisa!

  Thank you for asking how my text diet is going. It’s funny, after I read your message, I replied with a very lengthy entry. I sent it from my e-mail and heaven knows where it went!? It does not appear here on this site/blog…..

  I have not sent messages of ANY kind for three weeks and three days! We had our “argument” aka deal breaker conversation eight weeks ago. So, over the eight weeks, I asked for forgiveness, reached out, declared more loving feelings, etc. etc. To no avail.

  I must mention, as I have before, I never compromised my dignity by saying weird things, begging, etc. I did, however, send messages at least seven times over eight weeks-two weeks being longest time between any messages.

  Finally felt like I said everything I wanted to or could. I’m done trying. Unless of course, someday, I decide to reconsider and send something again. lol Don’t think so though.

  What I do want to say is that I have come to the conclusion that I have not been getting the silent treatment. You must be in a relationship for that. I think that Mr. Wonderful simply dumped me. Rather than end a relationship with a goodbye or WHATEVER-like a grown man would….he chose to behave more immaturely. Falling off the face of the earth because it might be uncomfortable to say it wouldn’t work for him was too much. Not a good quality for a grown up!

  So, I think that I have put too much thought into why he wouldn’t speak to me. Speculating about personality disorders, being afraid of commitment, etc. was my way of not realizing or wanting to realize he was “OUT!” I have been dumped.

  Saying he was in love and blah, blah, blah for an hour then never speaking to me again because of one phone call (A WEEK LATER) wherein I said I thought he had been insensitive is not nice, not mature, not healthy, not well adjusted. However, if he wanted to bail, it is his decision. How he did it was like a weasel. Oh well.

  I think not receiving responses for so long after an “incident” means it is over. They are not playing games. Probably no “dance”. I think { I am certainly no expert} but I think it’s game over.

  I am so sad. I have been rejected by someone who I thought was in the same space I was. He said he was.

  I will say, Lisa, Mr. Wonderful never said anything even remotely mean or even rude. M sounds mean. He sounds like he does not like women at all. He sounds manipulative and calculated. The good things about him sounded awesome. Does the good outweigh the bad? Hope I haven’t been too forward. I just know how hard it is to see qualities that won’t work because the characteristics you do like are so attractive.

  All in all, these men have too much baggage. Interesting how the men everyone’s discussing have similarities, one of which seems to be being involved with decent, kind, accepting women?

  I know, Lisa, it feels like you have to start your “diet” all over-from day one. Remember, don’t be too hard on yourself. Trying to make sense of wacky behavior is hard. We are not perfect, but we don’t speak the same language as these nut jobs. Now, if and when I fire off another lame message-you can remind me of the same things! :-} (Yours was not lame and thank goodness you haven’t sent seven or soooooooo!!! YIKES. You are doing great. Imagine what I did. I wonder what would have happened if I had let him breathe-given him time to think instead of panicking? But, doesn’t matter, right? He cannot communicate and deal with things he does not like the way someone his age should. So, it wouldn’t work anyway.

  Reply
  • 

    Lisa

    09/10/2009 at 4:53 pm

    Hi Chris

    Great that your text diet is going so well!

    You do have to wonder if they want us to think something awful has happened to them – so not only are we tempted to go OTT, panic, beg, plead etc… we also might go out of our minds with worry that he’s ill or worse. Mind, I bet we’ve all come across the advice that ”really, he isn’t lying in a gutter somewhere crying out your name”.

    In your case, it is really strange though. He didn’t ‘get anything off his chest’, he just did a houdini. See, if I put myself into his shoes (bearing in mind he was never cruel or mean) and suddenly I get cold feet, don’t know how to back track but don’t want to have The Conversation… do I really feel ok about plain ignorning someone who is reaching out to me, someone who is upset and hurt? I don’t know if you read one of my much earlier posts about my previous boyfriend who was with someone else the entire 4 years we were together…

    He recently got in touch with me (a year after we broke up) through a series of calls at all hours – which I didn’t pick up – and then texts. The hurt he caused has dissipated but I had and have nothing left to say to him – but even then, I could hear the hurt and loneliness in his voice and his words and I ended up eventually replying and being kind but telling him in no uncertain terms I would ever go back there. It’s not even about forgiveness, or forgetting. It’s about not being able to ignore someone in pain no matter who they are.

    Which is why, whether we go down the personality disorder path, the what-happened-to-them-in-childhood path, the hard conclusion they’re just plain mean… it’s unthinkable when you’re a healthy human being to not only turn your back on a person in pain, but to consciously (and with some satisfaction) add to it.

    Of course you weren’t being forward saying M is manipulative, calculated and mean. He does hate women, he as much said it on a few occasions. The disgusting contrast between this and the warm, funny, gorgeous man I fell for makes me feel sick.

    Don’t torture yourself wondering what would have happened if you’d given him breathing space. If all it took was one small disagreement to make him vanish completely, I’d guess simple breathing space wouldn’t have made much difference. You needed to act and react as you did – it’s only human.

    Apart from my minor b*lls up with an accidental text, here’s to you and I keeping up the text diet! Keep going!

    Reply
• 

  Lisa

  09/08/2009 at 5:29 pm

  He slept with his ex’s GF’s? Well exactly, her friends were crap and that’s even scarier than having a crap BF. You still having another good day?

  Don’t give in. You are so right about ending up with even less than before if he comes back into your life. Why is it that cool, laid back, healthy women get sucked in by total creeps? I think now that it depends on how good a liar they are. And why they are lying to us in the first place.

  I had a talk today with our Life Coach/Counselor where I work. Usually we just chat about work/life balance, personal development etc but I asked if I could run something more personal past her. I recounted our ‘relationship’, how I discovered his lies, how he tried to be reassuring and comforting at first but then became callous and hurtful, followed of course by the silence.

  I threw in the word ‘narcissist’ and she half agreed but then printed something from her laptop and asked me to read it.

  Honestly, my head started to swim and I felt sick. I don’t want this to be him. I was almost ‘happy’ with the narcissist label.

  This is what I read.

  ”If the sociopath feels that the criticism may harm him or thwart his plans, he may become alarmed, because these are machines dedicated to carrying out their plans. Thwarted plans don’t get carried out. Not good. So criticism simply spins the sociopath into a dizzying performance of lying, more lying, lies upon lies layered upon more lies, show-business style performance, the Mother of All Personal Charm Shows, on and on.

  The “show” is so mesmerizing, baffling, confusing and charming that you can barely even understand what’s happening, but a lot of times, you end up going along with the sociopath. Afterward, maybe you wonder why. The sociopath gets up and walks out of the room and out of your life.

  Later, picking up the pieces, you are sitting there, dazed, shaking your head. “What the Hell was that?” you are thinking. It’s like you just got hit by a Human Tornado that whirled into your life, trashed a lot of stuff, and then twisted off speedily into the sunset. You look outside and it’s gone. You’ve been the victim of an emotional mugging and you still can’t make sense of it.

  There’s plenty on the Net about both sociopathy and narcissism and I have only barely scratched the surface here. Suffice to say that I feel that the sociopath is at the far end of the narcissistic scale. The sociopath is the ultra-narcissist.

  He’s so superior and above it all that he doesn’t even care anymore. He thinks you’re an idiot and he doesn’t care if you disagree. He will use you, abuse you, maybe even steal from you, assault you or kill you, but then he will sit down and eat a bowl of cereal like nothing else happened. That’s the ultimate in narcissism. You don’t exist as another human being to him. You’re a pure object, a tool, a means to an end. You may as well be a steering wheel or a hammer – that’s how much humanity you have to him.

  The truth is that this is all just spectrum, probably emanating from extroversion at one end and moving through narcissism and all the way to psychopathy.

  I would also point out that most sociopaths are never even arrested. These are the “controlled sociopaths” swarming all over the worlds of business, law, politics, law enforcement and the military. All of these professions provide outlets for controlled sociopaths to channel their antisocial and extremely aggressive behavior into. The shyster attorney, crooked businessman, con artist, ruthless executive, lying and wheeling/dealing politician come to mind.

  There are many non-sociopaths in law enforcement and the military, but it’s heaven for controlled sociopaths too.”

  Great. I go from a malignant narcissist (who ended up committing ABH on his ‘other’ woman), to the ultra-narcissist. Apparently. What I would give for a 10 minute conversation with M’s ex…

  Reply
  • 

    Lisa

    09/09/2009 at 7:36 am

    Hi Sas

    I totall agree that we should be careful with labels. I felt uncomfortable writing my post yesterday because I didn’t want it to seem like I was randomly clawing about in the dark looking for a label to stick on M’s head. I didn’t (still don’t really) want a label – I would like him to talk to me as he used to talk to me, but that won’t happen.

    And it is the MEAN streak in him that alerted our life coach here. I only started taking about it really because she said she heard anxiety in my voice when she asked me about work/life balance. I am, I have to admit, scared stiff of M. Which she says is just not normal. And she read my posts on here, including the transcript of our last text conversation.

    His even ‘joking’ insinuation that I shouldn’t go and kill myself or mutilate myself because he has decided to label me a ‘boiler’ meant HUGE RED FLAG to her and it is not the behaviour, thinking or emotion of a normal human being. Especially when that human being ’should’ be feeling instead a degree of remorse and shame. Not the complete opposite.

    There were things I shared with her of a more intimate nature that I can’t really share on here and this flagged things up for her too. To the point where she couldn’t believe I’d not thought something was ‘wrong’.

    People are sometimes mean Sas. They exist. But it is not a healthy, balanced behaviour. It comes from somewhere and means we should be taking notice of it, not explaining it away.

    I think your guy enjoys the push-pull, the torment he puts you through because he knows that just fuels the dynamic of the relationship. Well up to now that is, because you’ve stopped playing the game. There is no game with M. Either I went along with what he wanted or it was game over. No remorse, no regret, no apology, no real human show of anything. It was all based on lies and once his lies were revealed, I served no more purpose and the name calling was to obliterate what I thought I may have meant to him.

    It was hard to hear, especially when I didn’t particularly want to talk about this with her. But it had to be said I suppose.

    Reply
• 

  Lisa

  09/09/2009 at 7:36 am

  Hi Sas

  I totall agree that we should be careful with labels. I felt uncomfortable writing my post yesterday because I didn’t want it to seem like I was randomly clawing about in the dark looking for a label to stick on M’s head. I didn’t (still don’t really) want a label – I would like him to talk to me as he used to talk to me, but that won’t happen.

  And it is the MEAN streak in him that alerted our life coach here. I only started taking about it really because she said she heard anxiety in my voice when she asked me about work/life balance. I am, I have to admit, scared stiff of M. Which she says is just not normal. And she read my posts on here, including the transcript of our last text conversation.

  His even ‘joking’ insinuation that I shouldn’t go and kill myself or mutilate myself because he has decided to label me a ‘boiler’ meant HUGE RED FLAG to her and it is not the behaviour, thinking or emotion of a normal human being. Especially when that human being ’should’ be feeling instead a degree of remorse and shame. Not the complete opposite.

  There were things I shared with her of a more intimate nature that I can’t really share on here and this flagged things up for her too. To the point where she couldn’t believe I’d not thought something was ‘wrong’.

  People are sometimes mean Sas. They exist. But it is not a healthy, balanced behaviour. It comes from somewhere and means we should be taking notice of it, not explaining it away.

  I think your guy enjoys the push-pull, the torment he puts you through because he knows that just fuels the dynamic of the relationship. Well up to now that is, because you’ve stopped playing the game. There is no game with M. Either I went along with what he wanted or it was game over. No remorse, no regret, no apology, no real human show of anything. It was all based on lies and once his lies were revealed, I served no more purpose and the name calling was to obliterate what I thought I may have meant to him.

  It was hard to hear, especially when I didn’t particularly want to talk about this with her. But it had to be said I suppose.

  Reply
• 

  Sasha

  09/09/2009 at 4:17 pm

  Well, lots going on then – sounds like you’ve got the lot; the narcissist, the cognitive dissonance, and the mean (note I’ve added the last two letters of my name, that’s why it looks different). I guess it doesn’t’ help that he had a 9 year relationship prior to you? So it feels personal as surely he could not have sustained 9 years doing this? Horrible situation. All part of it. What a sadist (another label).

  Yesterday I felt like I’d given myself presence by removing myself from the situation. It was just for a moment, but it was powerful as the ST (as we know) is about denying yr presence. And it was particularly powerful in my case, as i have been denied a full place in his life (re the kids). I’m going to concentrate on feeling that.

  We can’t save these guys from themselves…..

  Reply
• 

  Lisa

  09/10/2009 at 5:40 pm

  Hi Sasha

  I did wonder what Sas was short for!

  It’s great that you have the upper hand now, removing yourself from the situation. I suppose it all comes down to who feels they have the most power – the more attention you give them (that goes ignored) the more the scales tip in their favour. Ridiculous though isn’t it. What a redundant way to waste weeks, months, years of a life.

  M’s 9 year relationship did and still does baffle me. OK, maybe she wasn’t the kindest of people but it’s difficult to accept that he went from being a faithful, loving, responsible boyfriend and dad to a mysoginistic, cruel (I hesitate to say sadistic), self-serving, manipulative liar. Maybe there’s a ”How to Be the B*stard You’ve Always Wanted to Be” online course..?! She probably did cheat on him as he always said she did, but I have been through the same experience, and it didn’t turn me into super bitch.

  So yes, it has felt personal because he had a long term meaningful relationship prior to me. But then the ‘other woman’ I found in his phone has been on the scene much longer than me (he told me this) so he was, from my calculations, already seeing her when he was still with his ex. Doesn’t make him quite so much the injured party does it. Nothing is ever as it seems eh.

  If the situation had been reversed… if he had looked in my phone, found texts from some guy with lots of xxx and ‘miss you’ and he’d confronted me… I’d have felt bloody awful. Miserable. I’d have had no right to be p#ssed off that he looked in my phone – he guessed something wasn’t right and had caught me in a lie. NO WAY could I have ignored him for a week, ignoring his one quiet attempt to talk and sort things out… and then a week later have nothing better to do than call him names, belittle his feelings, laugh at how sad he was feeling…

  It’s sick and twisted. Or is it just me?! IS there a reasonable explanation for his behaviour?

  No Sasha, we can’t save them from themselves…

  Reply
• 

  kanaklya

  09/11/2009 at 1:06 am

  There is this guy who liked me two years ago. We worked together and initially he was was a good friend. I did not have feelings for him and told him on several occassions.
  When he persisted, I told my bosses. We were called for a meeting and he was told not to text me, e-mail me call me or be with me alone at work. We were to be together only in group settings. He was to be fired if he didn’t comply.
  This was meant to help him overcome his feelings for me. He however took it to the extreme, he cut off all forms of communication. He totally ignored me even when I asked him a straight question.
  He acted as if I was dead. He has never said more than an occassional hallo to me in two years. What do I do?

  Reply
  • 

    Nonie

    09/15/2009 at 2:50 am

    I think you took an extreme step of making his life miserable with the bosses . I thought he was your friend ?

    Reply
    • 

      kanaklya

      09/18/2009 at 4:33 pm

      I still think he was and is being very abusive by not talking to me.He is being a child honestly.

      Reply
• 

  Zahn

  09/12/2009 at 11:42 am

  Hi everyone,

  I haven’t posted any comments in a while but I have been following the other postings. Let me just say that even though each situation is as unique as the individuals experiencing it the patterns and trends are similar if not the same. We have to know though that these situations, circumstances and the scum dishing out the dirt do not in anyway define who and what we are. WE are in CONTROL and we must take charge of how we deal with the issues.

  My situation…just to recap involved an individual who I thought was my close friend giving me the silent treatment for no reason. I saw where the individual had the traits of being a user however I dismissed it. Need less to saw he person started contacting me again simply because they required ssomething from me. Well I cut that SHIT out and I am just keeping a very safe distance away from the individual.

  I am important as well and I am not going to be used or abused by anyone. You see we have to decide just what we are prepared to accept or not accept and make the necessary adjustments to achieve the result we want.

  You cannot expect to use the same method over and over again and attain a different result.

  I have to say I feel very good about my decision, I learnt from the past 5 months that I am who I am because of GOD ALMIGHTY
  and nobody else.

  Sure it was not and is not always easy but we have to know without a shadow of a doubt that peole can only do to you what you allow.

  Reply
  • 

    Nonie

    09/16/2009 at 1:12 am

    zahn,

    Y ou are a very brave person . You are not only making an effort to come out of the abusive treatment , but are staying positive and motivated. I guess thats what we all need to understand that we are the people who give such people powers to hurt us. They survive on this power to inflict more pain. The sooner we snatch that power away , the better we can make ourselves .

    Reply
• 

  Nonie

  09/15/2009 at 2:48 am

  Hi ,

  After reading all the above comments and silent treatments , I am very sure that I am not the one who is sufferring alone . There is something weird about people who give this kind of treatment to others knowingly . I have been seeing this guy for about a year now , living together most of the time ( at my place ) and initially for first six months he had very little jmoney and i was doing the spending . I had given so much of love , care and attentiohn to him that even he was surprised. Well one day over some issue , we fought and he stopped speaking to me for a month . Even though I apologised. Anyways after a month , we came back together and the whole thing started again . Though I could never forget the hurt of him leaving me alone for a month without explanation.But things went well and whenever we had a fight he would stop meeting me . Now again we had a fight and he has stopped talking or meeting me since 3 weeks . I feel cheated again and again . maybe he has found someone else now that he is comfortable not seeing me anymore . But I am totally in a daze .

  Reply
  • 

    Zahn

    09/15/2009 at 6:33 pm

    Nonie, you are better off without this self ABSORBED , SELFISH BASTARD. He is just angry with who he is and cannot deal with who you are. Again this is all about the bastard. As difficult as it may be just move on.

    Reply
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  Nonie

  09/16/2009 at 4:47 am

  hi guys,

  now this is getting weird. The guy I was seeing had stopped talking to me , calling me and meeting me . But yesterday , he saw me having coffee with another guy late at night in a restaurant and he started sending me hate messages .when I called him , he said that I was fooling him . I was shocked !!! I told him that he was the one who stopped talking to me so now why the possessiveness . Then to that he says u have been fooling me and u are too smart and all and I have nothing to do with you . I told him that I dont have to explain but if he decided not to meet me , I have to meet people . I am kind of confused here . The guy doesnt want to be with me yet he is feeeling bad that I am with someone else.And whenever I have sent him an email ( forwards ) or an sms during his ’silent days’ he has replied back and called also . But never explained his stance always talks about things here and there about work and all. Yesterday I had written to him about what I thought abt his silent treatment and he called up and spoke very nicely to me and said that he could not read th ewhole thing but it was hurtful.I really dont understand the guy .

  Reply
• 

  Lisa

  09/17/2009 at 7:06 am

  Hi Nonie

  I did send you a long reply that was being moderated because I added a useful website for you – but it has vanished!

  Have a read of Lisa E Scott’s page called ‘Its all About Him’. I think Zahn hit the nail on the head with her comments. Please google Lisa and her website, I’m sure you’ll read lots of things on there that at first might scare you with their familiarity but it will at least shed a lot of light on what you’re going through.

  Let me know how you get on.

  Reply
  • 

    Nonie

    09/18/2009 at 5:31 am

    Thanks Lisa ,

    I read the article by Lisa on narcissists and their behaviour and some of the traits do feel familiar like lying , taking money and not returning it back ever , verbal abuse after a while in the relationship etc. The fact is such people never change and their behaviour is so charming in the beginning of the relationship that it surprising that they can change completely after about 6-7 months ina relationship. And believe me such people are totally UNGRATEFUL. whatever you do for them is less. I used to cook food for this guy , spend money on gifts , helped him emotionally , listening to his problems and all this for what …? The guy did not even think twice before leaving me … TWICE !!! if a guy can stay without talking to me for a wek he can stay forever .

    I really feel the PIAn every evening and every morning that I get up. And I blame myself for it … No matter how much I involve myself with other activities like gymming , friends etc .. I cant stop thinking how a person can be so cold.

    maybe I need help but I just dont seem to forget and its eating me up.

    Reply
• 

  manipulated

  09/18/2009 at 12:23 am

  I’ve been on the receiving end of the silent treatment for 14 days. The relationship in general was far from perfect, but two days before he disappeared things we’re fine. Our last conversation was about seeing each other soon…after realizing two days later that he wasn’t returning my calls, I called his office. A friend of his broke up with me by proxy and informed me that not only was he lying to me since day one, he had several girlfriends and I was not one of the. He owes me a large sum of money and has refused to reply to any of my attempts at communication about either the relationship or repayment of the loan. The few times he did respond was only to yell at me for having a response to his disappearing. His exact words was that I have no self control and until I learned to listen and behave, he had nothing to say.

  I can say that the first two weeks were painful. I didn’t sleep for the first four days. Consumed by confusion, frustration, fear, pain…such a painfully disconcerting experience. He’s alluded to getting a restraining order when none of my contacts with him have been threatening. Making up stories, listening to everyone in his life but me. It’s like he’s delusional at times. He really believes I owe him an apology for leaving me without any word at all. He also feels entitled to deduct all cell phone charges from the loan I gave him, saying that he’s being charged by his cell phone company five bucks per text message. Fortunately, we have an agreement in writing so at the very least I can pursue a judgment against him. But God…how does it come to this? What happened to picking up the phone and saying “I’m not into you anymore. I realize that you made a big sacrifice loaning me thousands of dollars and although I can’t pay you back now…I’ll do everything in my power to get that to you on a payment schedule that doesn’t make this a burden on you.”

  I’m devastated, but getting over it little by little. I can sleep. I know that healing is a process. I know that there is someone else for me, and that I’d never give another human the silent treatment like this man has given me.

  Reply
• 

  Eve

  09/18/2009 at 11:33 am

  SOS

  Reading this article made me feel relieved, pierced, and tortured all at once.
  My sons father whom I have never been married to is now using the silent treatment against me to hurt me. Not only is he using the silent treatment again me but he is talking extremely negatively about me to family members and has turned close friends against me and damaged virtually every meaning relationship in my life. I have begged and pleaded with him to stop but he continues for about two months now. He has never given a penny toward child support and whenever he does have some extra money he purchases our son toys. I feel it is such a slap in the face to me. When he is not giving me the silent treatment he is using me for whatever i can give him. Why am i am obsessed with being tortured by him? for a short period of time we had a very intense relationship and shared a lot of our silent pain from childhood with one another but shortly after his main goal became to hurt me. but the more pain he caused the more i wanted him. when i got pregnant he went around saying i was using this pregnancy to trap him and a bunch of other hurtful things. however it was far from the case i never thought i could conceive bc i rarely got my period and bc i never did one while being in a four year relationship before meeting my sons father. the emotional abuse he inflicts on me is so close to home being that i received similar abuse growing up from my mother and her parents after my father had gotten sick when i was 6 years old. i was the middle child and treated like Cinderella but never spoke back. now i am older, and angry and unable to guard my mouth when someone makes me feel threatened in anyway or does something that hurts me. then i feel crazy, look crazy, and crazy. and are left alone to pick up the pieces, no one helps me with my son i am not on public assistance i work full time and put my sons monetary needs before my own. how do i stop feeling abused, feeding into the abuse so i can move on be happy and sleep at night? plus my worst fear is i will continue the cycle of abuse and pass it on to my baby boy whom i cherish and adore. please any suggestions? i truely feel like i am at the end of my rope and ready to give up on myself. he robbed years of time i spent rebuilding myself and brought me right back to square one. I always feel sorry for him bc he suffers badly from being abused as a little boy….
  excuse the mumble jumble wording i have lost a lot of sleep

  Reply
• 

  Gretchen

  09/21/2009 at 12:46 am

  I have spent this afternoon reading through all of these postings and I know now that I am in Day 1 of the silent treatment. I received a text message that said “I need a break”. I sent a text back stating that I can respect and honor his need for a break and asked if I could please talk first. I have heard nothing since. I just wanted to thank you all for sharing all of your stories so that someone who at the beginning of a long road has knowledge. Knowledge is power. This day of quiet reflection with knowledge has led me to realize that I am deserve better than this. Thank you all.

  Reply
  • 

    Chris

    09/21/2009 at 4:42 pm

    Gretchen, while I can sympathize with the feelings you may be having; you are not receiving the silent treatment. You received a message letting you know what was going to be happening-”a break.” Awesome that you replied with a message indicating you would honor and respect his need for one. Try to stick to it and not contact him/her. It will turn out for the best and will be the most likely path toward resuming your relationship. You have been afforded an explanation. I think it was respectful on his part. Yeah, not what you would have liked-to talk about it first, but it will keep you from wondering if he has fallen off the face of the earth, lying in a ditch, never existed etc., etc. And, most likely, you have an idea of why he needs a break. Why maybe you both could use one. Be happy, at this point– he does not sound like a creep.

    Reply
    • 

      Gretchen

      09/21/2009 at 11:48 pm

      Hi Chris,
      Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate an outside perspective from someone who has such experience in this. However, I am almost sure that I am getting the silent treatment. I do not think that a text message stating “I need a break” is an effective way to communicate with a person that you supposedly have a loving relationship with. I always go back to the question “would I ever do that to someone?” The answer is no way, never. If they asked to speak with me, I would give them the time and opportunity to do so. This has been a very intimate relationship of 3 years, with 10 years prior to that as friends. I did not give any background on the situation because I just couldn’t go there yesterday. The background of this person is that he does have a history of “icing” his friends for extended periods of time for reasons they don’t even know. They all tend to be kind women who would do anything for him. He has a way of controlling and manipulating women and turning things around so that he always come out “looking like the good guy”. The women all tend to be quite quiet about the whole thing, but I know how much they are hurting. I now sort of look at him as a predator who knows how to choose his prey. I guess I thought that I was special and this could not or would not ever happen to me. There is so much more to this story that at this point, I will spare you the details. I so appreciate your taking the time to reply as it does help tremendously to have support. I am trying to take a positive perspective and am actually wondering how this whole thing will play out. I know that because of this, I definitely feel quite differently about him. But, it is only Day 2 right now. I am also going to go back a read again all of the postings because it was a lot of information to try to take in when in an emotionally volatile state. But, thank you again. I was able to not contact him at all today because of the extra strength! Hope all is well with you.

      Reply
• 

  Lisa

  09/21/2009 at 10:13 pm

  Hi Gretchen, I completely agree with Chris.

  There is a big difference between ‘cooling off/taking a break’ and getting the silent treatment. Let him have his space, however long that may be, and allow him to come back when he’s ready. It’s really good that he didn’t leave you hanging in silence, wondering what the hell was going on.

  You’ve probably read mine and Chris’ posts – as well as many others – where the silent treatment was either out of the blue with no viable explanation, or a deliberate means to hurt in a passive-aggressive way.

  In your case, silence is just space to think and consider. Let him miss you… be conspicuous by your absence, don’t appear needy or clingy and sit tight (no matter how tempted you are to cave in and contact him!).

  Reply
  • 

    Gretchen

    09/22/2009 at 12:03 am

    Hi Lisa,
    I am brand new to this and left a reply on Chris’ last comment about my situation. Please read this, if you are interested. This is such a support to have during this awful time. I have read your posts and can empathize with the pain you have gone through. I am so very sorry for what you have endured. The posts have helped me identify this person as a narssicist (how do you spell that?)…everything is all about him. He is also very passive aggressive and controlling. I am already asking myself the question, how in the heck did I end up in a relationship like this?? Right now that is the bigger question. I am glad that I feel strong and confident most of the time. I am trying to shift my focus away from the negativity and towards the positive in my life. However, I sooo wanted to send a completely blank text message today. I just thought it would be appropriate. I know that is the anger and hurt in me responding and wanting him to feel the hurt that I feel. I will absolutely not stoop to that level. But just thinking about it somehow helps I am also taking your advice to remain absent and to not appear needy or clingy. Thanks again so much.

    Reply
    • 

      Lisa

      09/25/2009 at 9:13 am

      Hi Gretchen

      I read your post to Chris and now see there’s much more to him and all this than just a cooling off period. How have you been, has he made contact?

      It’s almost impossible to conceive that we could end up in a relationship with people like this. I can see now, with time as perspective, that I ignored some red flags (some blatant, others not so, and others when it was too late and I was already in deep). You probably have a couple you can think of too – take special notice of the ones where you remember thinking something was ‘odd’ but couldn’t put your finger on it at the time..

      Hope you’re still feeling strong and positive.

      Reply
      • 

        Gretchen

        09/25/2009 at 8:46 pm

        Hi Lisa,
        Thanks for checking back in. I was able to remain strong and not contact him at all for 3 days. I then sent text message <3 and got no response. Waited 2 more days and apologized for hurting him. No response again. I decided to confront him and he turned it around on me, saying that he was upset because I was refusing to talk to him. Unbelievable. Funny thing is that I have the text correspondance where I clearly am asking to talk to him and he is ignoring my requests. Anyhow, I have asked nicely, politely and even begged to talk to him. All he could say is "not yet". I guess he is not done torturing me. I just needed to look him in the eye and say that I was open to talking to him any day or time he was available. When he rejected this, I calmly (although tears were in my eyes) said "okay" and started to walk away. At that point, he grabbed both my arms very affectionately and kissed me twice and said "we will get there". However, he is making no effort to do what needs to be done to so called get there. I am a bit of a wreck today and am working hard to understand this for what it really is. Your reply to me could not have come at a better time! THANK YOU so much for your comments and support. Oh, and also I have seen so many red flags along the way…like you, I was already in it deep when they became more obvious. How are you doing?

        Reply
        • 

          Lisa

          10/01/2009 at 10:13 pm

          Hi Gretchen,

          Check out the Lisa E Scott website that I mentioned a few posts back to Nonie. It has opened my eyes to things I either ignored, explained away or that were just so plain strange I couldn’t even begin to comprehend.

          My ex has been silent now for nearly 3 months. All the red flags I ignored included:

          ‘women are all mad’
          ‘women just want to sap the sperm out of you’
          ‘you’re a great girl but I don’t want a relationship’
          ‘i’ve got lots of sex toys’

          Yep, hard to believe it but I passed these off as ‘quirky’ because he threw them in in such a way that I thought he could be joking.

          I’m sure if I bumped into him somewhere, I’d get the lovely charming gregarious guy I met. Then we’d part ways and I guess he’d either stay silent or shoot me a sarcastic dismissive text (but I’m only guessing here). Face to face they are probably quite cowardly,

          He has never been nasty to my face, ever. In fact, always the opposite. He was only nasty via text after I had discovered he was seeing other people. While I was seeing him, he’d be distant for days or a couple of weeks at a time, or ignore my texts to put me off balance, or say things that were just entirely inappropriate to the context of the situation. As if his reactions and emotions were all back to front. Then the rest of the time he was great company, a great friend, attentative lover.

          Please read all the stories and message boards on Lisa E Scott’s site. Post your story on there and wait for all the support and feedback. It really is an amazing support network.

          Has yours been in contact since? Thing is, even with all that I know now and my acceptance that we are over, if his name flashed up on my phone my heart would skip a beat and I would be tormented by not replying. Mad eh. It would probably take a another, bigger dose of the same behaviour and treatment to finally make me realise. Which makes me so disappointed with myself – I’ve had anxiety, depression (getting there slowly though), my self esteem is shot, I even question if I am ‘mad’ like he said all women are and if I’m the ‘bunny boiler’ he accused me of being. Rationally I know it’s not true, but on an emotional level it’s always there.

          So it’s fine if he stays away, smug in the knowledge that he crushed me and had the upper hand. His staying away makes me a healthier person so it’s really a blessing in disguise.

          If what I’ve described bears no resemblance to your situation or your feelings, please just disregard. It would be great to hear your guy had made an enormous apology and done his absolute utmost to put it all right.

          Let me know how you are x
      • 

        Gretchen

        10/02/2009 at 12:25 am

        Hi Lisa,
        It was nice to hear from you again. I can so relate to what you have described. We have had very little contact since the whole thing started. I did sent a text over last weekend asking how he was. His reply was that he was good and said Illoveyou. Of course, I sent one back saying the same thing…stupid me!! Anyways, thinking that he might be ready to talk to me, I texted him and asked if I could see him. All he could say was not yet. So, I have had no contact over the past few days. I have cleared my text history as to not hold onto anything that has been said. That helps a little bit. I am also considering changing my phone number so that I don’t sit around and constantly wonder if he is going to contact me. I have already changed my schedule to fill the times that I would have normally spent with him. I am hoping this awful pain lessens and that I can truly realize that the whole thing was not real because he cannot be real. I am thinking that I may just show up and confront him soon, just to say I am done. Nothing more. I want to look him in the eye and have the satisfaction that I made a decision based upon his treatment that I completely believe in. What do you think of this? I will check out the Lisa E. Scott website. Thanks for the suggestion. I am very sorry that you continue to be tormented. I wonder if these men know how to pick super sensitive women? You sound like you are very smart and that you can understand it, but it is still difficult to deal with the feelings. I hope you are well. Please keep in touch, you have really helped.

        Reply
        • 

          Lisa

          10/02/2009 at 2:20 pm

          Hi Gretchen

          In a previous relationship of mine (before this one I’ve been posting about) the guy I was involved with would do to me what your guy seems to be doing to you. It was gut wrenching. He would have me waiting and agonizing over what was all HIS decision.

          He would tell me he needed space and distance because his ex wife was making things difficult for him. Or he needed space to go home and sort things out. I must point out that our relationship was long distance – he worked around Europe a lot and when he was in the UK, he lived 4 hours away. Occasionally, during his need for space, he would throw me a text like ‘’hey you just thinking about you’’, then not reply to my response. Just enough to keep me in there but deliberately not enough to give me any reassurance.

          I lived with this cr*p for four years. It was like being brainwashed now I think about it – he was hurtful, cruel, manipulative, deliberately started arguments via text so he could blame me for it and take the pleasure of ignoring me for days/weeks. And I was so ashamed of being in this situation that I couldn’t talk about it with my friends. I’d never known anything like it so I thought it was something I was doing wrong or saying. To the outside world, I pretended all was ok. Sickeningly, he was the only one who could make me feel better, take all the hurt away. And so it went on.

          Eventually, I discovered he’d been leading a double life all along. Well triple really. He was not divorced when we met – his wife had no idea he was cheating on her. He was also seeing someone else (who finally divorced her husband for him) the whole time he was seeing me. In fact, once his wife had enough of his lies, divorced him and kicked him out, he was planning to move in with the other woman. His explanation when I confronted him? ‘’Only because she lives closer than you do’’.

          I am not saying your guy is cheating. Please don’t read it like that – I’m just rounding off my story of something similar with the final ‘explanation’ for his actions. He needed space and told me I wouldn’t hear from him for a couple of weeks because he was actually spending time with someone else. Then he did the same to her when he was concentrating on me.

          Eventually I spoke to his other woman and our experiences of him and his behaviour were totally identical. The games, the cruelty, the silences, the charm, the deceit. And not one ounce of guilt or shame; he devastated three people’s lives (including his children’s) because he completely believed he could get away with it. And if there were to be consequences, i.e. divorce, he always had a fall back plan with 2 other women.

          These men do pick strong, caring, open minded, empathic women. Divas and princesses wouldn’t even be on their radar – selfish shallow women wouldn’t stick around with selfish shallow men, simple as. Women like us mistake red flags for ‘quirkiness’ because we are open minded and believing. We put up with bad behaviour because when we are in a relationship, we invest deeply in it and are prepared to see out the occasional storm. We interpret their ‘off’ comments and behaviours as a sign of someone who is hurting who just needs love from someone who understands him.

          If you can ride this out a bit longer, reading up on the material on Lisa E Scott’s site as you go along, then either: you’ll be relieved and happy that he does not fit the narcissist/antisocial profile at all and have some comfort that his need for space will end soon; or, you will have gained knowledge from professional sources that explain a great deal of what you’ve put up with (even the weird, seemingly insignificant stuff you could never quite put your finger on) and this will hand you back a sense of control.

          I hope I haven’t come across as text bookie. Like I said in my other post, if he contacted me today I’d be so full of mixed feelings that everything I’ve read and been advised would probably go out the window! It’s not black and white, there are good days and bad days, we flounder and wonder if any of this was our fault and we miss the person who is making us feel so bad. We’re human. They aren’t – not in the complete sense.
        • 

          Gretchen

          10/21/2009 at 2:41 am

          Hi Lisa,
          Well a few more weeks have gone by and a lot has transpired. I got tired of waiting for him to contact me to talk and just showed up one afternoon at his place. I told him that I just needed 5 minutes of his time. I thought I was going there for closure, to say goodbye. He seemed very happy to see me and invited me to sit down to talk. I apologized for any lack of communication, etc. and told him that I had always wanted to talk. He managed to turn the whole thing around so that he was the victim. I fell for the whole thing. He told me he had missed me and wanted me back. He wanted things back the way they were. In the moment, thinking that things could go back to how they were I agreed to this. Interesting thing is that over the time that was by myself, I was really taking it all in, reading and listening to the Lisa E. Scott website. Something changed inside of me. I have given myself the permission to do at any time what I feel is what I need to get through this. I am sooo seeing things for what they really are now. I have really internalized what has happened and he is no longer nearly as important to me. I understand his m.o. and know that the relationship will never work. Something that I wanted and needed, but no longer do. I am still seeing him, but each time, I am more detached and it feels really liberating. I know that this is a time of growth for me and I am hoping that I truly can move on and feel really good that I have learned a lot from that relationship. How are you doing?? I hope you are well. Please know that your support really helped me during a very difficult time.
        • 

          Lisa

          11/03/2009 at 1:27 am

          Hi Gretchen

          I’m so glad to hear that you’re taking control and moving on. I really hope he’s either changed his ways because you’ve clued into them and they don’t work on you anymore – or you’ve decided to move on without him.

          It’s great (if that’s the word in these circumstances) to hear that I might have offered some useful advice to someone who was where I was a few weeks ago – and still am somtimes. Odd isn’t how complete strangers can come together, never actually meet and yet help each other through dark dark times like no one else can, not even our friends.

          Let me know how you’re doing. I’m still coming to terms with being completely cut off and ignored in an entirely undeserving way. I even accidentally sent him a text meant for someone else just a few weeks ago – and he ignored that. Even time couldn’t soften him up. Just a horrible person once the mask is off.

          Drop me a line, hope you’re doing well x
• 

  Lisa

  09/21/2009 at 10:27 pm

  Chris,

  How are things with you? I’ve realised slowly, and with a lot of good reading, that the silent treatment from M was just the tip of the iceberg. The Lisa E Scott website has opened my eyes and made me look at myself, not just him and his motivations.

  Still have crap days and ok days though. He never did reply to my accidental text – I so wish I hadn’t sent it, it just gave him the satisfaction to ignore me all over again. Weirdo. I’m the one who should be angry and bitter, he should be the one extending the olive branch – not the other way round! It’s quite common for this to happen in a relationship with a narcissist and knowing this has been a big help.

  Hope you’re well.

  Reply
• 

  Some girl

  09/26/2009 at 1:12 pm

  Hi,

  I have the same thing with my room mate. She does that to me all the time . I feel pain when she does that. We are only room mates and friends. Just two girls who live under the same roof, but she does that to me and it is really bothering me. Well I am moving out in a couple of days, and I hope I never feel that way again. I really hate this feeling. She is not a bad person, but she can really hurt me when she wants to… and I don’t think she realizes it…
  I don’t know if we should still be friends after I move out. I hope we are, because she is a good friend, when she is not pissed at me. But when she is…she can make my world fall on me. I am not sure, am I not that strong to avoid this feeling? I also walk away when I see this coming and I don’t give out any indication that I care and that I really feel bad about it. Eventually she comes around and talks to me, blaming me for being pout and that I’m actually the one not speaking to her. It is so not true – I do want to speak to her but she doesn’t let me with her silent treatment so I just go to my room and I show that I don’t give a damn and life goes on for me, even though I really am hurt.
  What does it mean , when someone is mad at you, giving you the silent treatment, but has never ever said why, yesterday you went to bed and everything is cool, you say good night, and after that in the morning when you walk out of your room and say hello, they act as if you don’t exist. I don’t get it I have never been like that with someone!

  Reply
• 

  Martha

  10/01/2009 at 8:32 pm

  The silent treatment is also known as passive-aggressive behavior, and that is mean. If you are the one suffering because somebody is acting that way to you, please stop and think “the problem is not you, is that person who has a very low self esteem and the only known approach by this person is the silent treatment. These individuals never admit they make mistakes, in fact for some reason they always believe they are the victims and try to make people feel guilty as much as they can….so don’t fall for those poor tactics, that type of people don’t deserve a bit of your thoughts…run away and stay away from toxic people like this as possible, if you can’t, pick a Hobie, an activity that occupy your mind and yourself for good time, and don’t give them the chance to continue treating you like your are a piece of crap, because you are not…the crap leaves inside of them

  Reply
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  Paul

  10/02/2009 at 4:10 am

  I feel foolish when I read these accounts of silent treatment from people who were in relationships with the people who punished them like that, because I faced the silent treatment too, but from someone whom I worked with in a small group (of only four people), and whom I had a crush on; a crush that I never acted on. Still, from reading the accounts of others, I think the silent treatment felt just as bad to me as it did to them. Also, I experienced it in person, on a daily basis, so it was not just a case of ignored phone calls or e-mails over a long time. Furthermore, this silent treatment started (as it often does) suddenly and mysteriously, without any argument or any event to set it off, at the start of December 2005, and continued every day, for 5 days a week, until August of this year: that was 44 months.

  We had been good friends, but about a year after she stopped talking to me, she also stopped talking to our boss, bizarre as it may sound, but it was true: and he tolerated her “bad mood” for another 3 years, until she finally lost her job because of it, in August.
  The silent treatment is the most effective punishment that someone can use against another person, because there seems to be nothing that can be done about it, except to somehow remove yourself from the situation; for me, that would have meant leaving my job. Instead, there were meetings with Human Resources people over the desperate working environment in our office (one person left, so it was then just myself, the silent one and our boss), and all that HR could tell me was “We can’t make someone talk to someone if they don’t want to”, and “Don’t let it get to you..” when I told them about how I had become an insomniac, and couldn’t sleep for more than a few hours, for the last three years at least. “Don’t let it get to you”..!! Easy for them to say that!

  The silent treatment doesn’t just affect you while you’re experiencing it; it doesn’t stop after work or on weekends – it affects you all the time, day and night, at work or on vacation, alone or in the company of friends. Like I said, I couldn’t sleep at night after about six months of silent treatment, and this continued for more than three years, while I would be found asleep at my desk at work, in the afternoon, or could not stay awake during meetings at work. Gradually, food became almost the only thing that I still derived some pleasure from, so I gained 30 pounds and went from being a little overweight to being obese. Also, when silent treatment continues for years, there is a danger that not only will you be excluded from the circle of friends that included the person who is now silent, but eventually your other friends can grow weary of hearing about it, or of seeing you look miserable, and you can lose those friends too, if they’re not the types to rally behind you. So the silent treatment can really take everything from you, without any external sign of it even being there: you have no cuts or bruises, all it takes is just one person (a person whose opinion of you matters a lot to you) to ignore you, and to continue to ignore you. And if you dare to react to it, or confront that person, then you become the person with “a problem”, which gives that person a motive to continue with the silent treatment. I am very non-confrontational, so I just took it.

  Somehow, it seems that reading about others who are as miserable as you, is comforting: so it has helped to read the accounts posted here.. Now that this person no longer works where I work, I do not dread coming to work every day like I used to, but the effects of the silent treatment are not over; when you’re made to feel insignificant on a daily basis for nearly four years, it really sinks in.

  Reply
• 

  Elleke Jenkins

  10/02/2009 at 8:59 pm

  I was married to a passive-aggressive man who punished me regularly with the silent treatment. No amount of marriage counseling or sharing feelings (one sided) or intervention from our pastor helped. He was told to participate in sensitive discussions with me, so he propped himself in a chair, mentally checked out, and never responded. No one could say he had ignored me that way. Nothing ever changed him.
  Everyone who has never had to live with him thinks he is the kindest most wonderful human being. He is full of anger from years of emotional isolation due to circumstances in his upbringing but he says this is not so. He does not think the consequences of his behavior are bad, and the result is certainly not his fault. No amount of getting things off my chest, or asking to talk instead of directly letting him know we needed solve something ever made any difference.
  He now lives several states away from me and I do not miss the days when I felt so betrayed by someone who was supposed to be committed to making a marriage, devoted to children, and open to dealing with life.

  Reply
• 

  Sarah

  10/03/2009 at 1:38 am

  Hello everyone,

  I have actually been giving the silent treatment to a man that I have been in a relationship for the past 6 months. It’s been 3 days so far that I have iced him out. Now the reason I am giving him this silent treatment is not because I am a cold, cruel or manipulative person by any means, but it is because I am getting absolutely NOTHING out of this relationship. He never seems to make any plans with me, has stopped calling me, has stopped calling me any pet names, never has the time of day to factor me into his life in ANY way. The only contact that I receive from his is one lousy text per day. I have discussed this with him before, and he resorts to the “pity invite,” basically meaning that he hangs out with me just to shut me up. I am no one to brag but I have been a very good girlfriend. I give him his space, I care about him, we have never gotten into a full blown out fight, just mild disagreements here and there. However, for the past 2 months, it seems as if his affection towards me his dwindling. I have put up with it for quite some time now, but I honestly don’t know what to do. So I’ve resorted to this silent treatment now, so he can see my value. As a side note, he is 10 years my senior. I am 22 while he is 32. . I honestly don’t know what is going on with him or if he’s lost interest? The silent treatment was the only solution that I could think of. Do you think I am doing the right thing?

  Reply
  • 

    Renee

    10/18/2009 at 11:46 pm

    Run. Run for the hills and never look back. For a start he is 10 years your senior, most people at 32 have relationship commitments or relationship bagage. How much do you trust what he says he is up to? Because there is obviousley something keeping him busy all the time that keeps him from seeing you. Maybe he has a wife and kids at home, at 32 it is possible, how can you be sure?
    Secondly, I can not stress this enough, he is not treating you right! That is not a relationship, that is emotional torture, and you shouldnt let him do that to you! You deserve so much better. Anyone deserves so much better than these horrible manipulative men that there is so many descriptions of on this site!
    The best thing to do is to try your best to move on and heal! I know how hard that is! It might sound impossible now if your really into him, but the best thing you can do is let go. You dont deserve to be treated like that! You are a wonderful special individual who has so much to give, and deserves to be cared about and treated right. And if he cant give you that then he doesnt deserve you!

    Talk to him, tell him that if he cant treat you with the care and respect that you deserve, then you dont need an indivual in your life who is going to hold you back from finding what you deserve. See what he says from that, and if he does not say he will try to change his ways, and starts seeing you more and acting like he cares, then walk away with dignity and your respect of yourself still intact.

    Because believe me, these kinds of indivuals will drain every drop of respect that you have for yourself out of you. And nobody should ever have to be subject to that. I hope you sort things out , and things turn out for the best whatever that may be!

    Good luck!

    Reply
• 

  Bianca

  10/03/2009 at 3:04 am

  Wow. I had no idea so many women were going through something so similar to my heartache. So here goes. I met a man who I instantly clicked with. He was incredibly charming, considerate and the sex was phenominal (isn’t it always that way with the assholes?) He is almost twice my age ( 25/48)which is my preference actually. I never anticipated such juvinile behaviour from someone so “mature” and wordly.

  Anyhoo, two months into the relationship, I noticed that he would play this little game of not calling for a few days and then calling out of the blue like it was nothing. Since it was still a new relationship, I decided to be patient by not bringing it up. Well, eventually, he went quite a few days without returning my calls. He finally texts me and says “are you mad at me?” “I miss you” How strange, right? I clearly and calmly expressed that it was unacceptable for him to just disappear like that and he apologised saying that it would not happen again. A week later, he stands me up saying that his employee got hurt and he had to sit with him in the hospital. B.S IMO…Then he doesn’t call me for a week! This time I am irate!!! I left him a nasty message basically calling him a little girl for not having the balls to tell the truth about anything. That must have really upset him because he refused to call me back. Instead he texts me with all these stories about how his daughter’s foot broke, his friend is fighting for his life, work is stressing him, the cat needs braces … blah blah blah…I realise I should not have yelled but I was so hurt. One minute he is professing his love: next he is ignoring me.

  So the last straw was when at the last minute he backed out of going to a concert I had been planning for months. He was obviously trying to punish me. I told him some pretty harsh things and basicaly acted like I didn’t want to speak to him anymore. Of course I was upset and hurt. After I cooled off a couple days later, I texted him: nothing. I text again. He responds ” I thought you weren’t talking to me” After that, it has been almost four weeks and nothng. He will not return my calls. What is strange is he will read my emails over and over again ( I track them) and he also doesn’t delete them. It’s like he enjoys torturing me. And what makes it so sad is I cannot let go. He must have strong will power wo be able to ignore this way. Every single passive aggressive trait listed applies to him. EVERY ONE from the low self esteem, to never expressing anger, fear of being alone etc

  Reply
• 

  Sarah

  10/04/2009 at 12:30 am

  Bianca,

  I feel SO bad for you, and whats even worse is that I know how frustrated you’re feeling right now. These men just love to use our hearts like a hackey sack. Every time I confront “my guy,” he always turns the tables and thinks I’M OVER REACTING. Oh ok, so its fine if you ignore me for more than a week or so, but I can’t get mad? Isn’t the point of a relationship to have consistent contact with one another. I’m not talking about obsessive contact… But I’m talking about a call here or there, to let me know that you are STILL ALIVE. Similar to your story, every time I DO make plans with him, he either A. Backs out B. Doesn’t follow through until the last minute, then ends up showing up late or C. Just never responds to me asking him if he wants to do anything over the weekend. I mean come on, WHY BE in a relationship if you wanna treat the other person like dirt? Ok, if they’ve lost interest, how hard is it to just simply say “Hey, I’m sorry, this relationship isn’t working for me, lets just go our separate ways…have a nice life kiddo” I feel as if he’s dragging me along for the ride and I have no where to go. I know how you feel, and what’s happening to us is NOT right. At the same time, its so hard to let go…. I honestly don’t know what to do anymore… might just resort to lesbianism, Ive had it with men…

  just kidding, Being straight ok for now.. but who knows. I hope everything works out for you dear.

  Reply
  • 

    Denny

    10/18/2009 at 9:31 pm

    Oh Sarah, why cant I have a girlfriend like you… you are so perfect! Any guy should be so lucky to have you!

    Reply
• 

  Bianca

  10/04/2009 at 1:37 am

  Sarah,

  From the outside looking in, it seems so easy to just let go and forget about these losers. I suspect that when you begin to ignore him he might respond more, but it won’t change the fact that he is incapable of respecting you the way you need him to. One of my friends told me that I was coming off as desperate for continuing to email my guy. You know what? she was right. All I am telling him is that he has control over me. Whether he just wantedd out of the relationship or is trying to punish me is something I have been trying to decipher but you know what? It really doesn’t matter. It’s HIS problem: not mine.
  What we all need to do is load up on something called self worth,. If we really valued ourselves would we continue to let this sort of this eat at our core? These people are miserable and depressed. At least I know my guy is. I have promised myself to stay strong and stop the obsessive thinking about the whys and the whens. It’s going to be difficult. But I have to start respecting myself again. Self worth is like a piggy bank and I need to feed it. I have let this guy tear away at my dignity for too long.

  Oh and Sarah, Ive tried the girl route and let’s just say that can get a little crazy too LOL!!!

  Reply
  • 

    Sarah

    10/04/2009 at 8:12 pm

    Bianca,

    haha, i haven’t tried the girls route yet but I’m suspecting that I will soon enough. I couldn’t hold out on the silent treatment long enough so I caved and called him yesterday, he responded by saying “I’m at work, I’ll TRY to call you later.” I love how they always say, “try” to do this, or “try” to do that. He did call me later (surprisingly enough, probably to end things, but I didn’t pick up) Anyways, later on, I had an interesting conversation with my friend who is in a picture perfect relationship. (no joke, and yes, they DO exist) The man that she is with adores her, treats her like royalty. So I asked what her secret it…. she responded, “Act like a lady, but think like a man” We have to put emotional walls up before we head into a relationship. We can’t be too available, can’t be too emotional, and basically, we need to show them that we have other options besides them, and that in a moments notice, we will leave if they try to do anything not so nice. Now after listening to this, it got me wondering, are we just too empathetic, bubbly, vivacious, laid back and soft with the men that we’re with?? Is that the reason they treat us like doormats? Perhaps if we had thicker skin, and didn’t stand for any kind of B.S thrown at us, perhaps the results of our relationship would be different? But at the same time, it’s a bit hard to change who you are as a person and become the manipulative, sneaky, and mind game player person that my friend has become. OOOH GOD its allll so complicated!!!!

    I haven’t called him back yet… I’m taking the mean approach. But I’m sure I’ll eventually cave, call him back and get no response once again. And so the vicious and emotional cycle continues! And do me a favor Bianca, don’t contact him, which I know that you aren’t doing. But even if the thought crosses your mind, do yourself a favor and stop yourself. Lol Don’t be like me. Life shouldn’t always be an emotional rollercoaster. We’re nice people, you and me, and these men honestly have no right to treat us with such disregard. No one should ever make you feel lower than what you are, because we are so much more than that, and have sooo much more to offer. We need to find guys that will appreciate us for what we have to give, not dismiss us and take advantage of our soft natures.

    Reply
• 

  Nonie

  10/07/2009 at 12:02 pm

  Hi Guys ,

  I have got the silent treatment for more than a month now and in between when I got to talk to him once , it was his venting out anger on me saying that I was short tempered and hit him with a pillow in the last fight so he has stopped his interaction with me and doesnt want to be associated with me anymore . I am really surprised .. we had talked about that incident and gotten over it also and the guy is using that to distance himself from me without explanation !!! any ways i feel miserable that an association that lasted for 1 year has come to an abrupt ending . Therefore I sent hiom some jokes and emails and did not get a response . After that 1 week passed and I called hima nd sent him a message saying that I wanted to meet him. He did not pick my phone and has not responded to my message also. I cant believe that I am going through this torture for a guy who does not even care .I have done so much for the person and he seems to be totally aloof. I feel so sick , lonely and at the same time hate myself for being so weak . Sometimes I get so angry at his behaviour that I want to hit him and hurt him badly and at other times I force myself to think whether I was wrong and feel bad. I just dont know how to handle this situation inspite of knowing that the person is having so much of pleasure by doing this to me . I guess its over now but not for me. Am still stuck in it although the person has flatly refused to marry me . I just want to be friends now so that I dont feel lonely anymore . Am I too weak ??

  Reply
• 

  Bianca

  10/08/2009 at 3:04 am

  Well it has been almost a month. I am beginning to think that my M basically sabatoged the situatuion so I would get angry with him and give him way out. What else could it be? I caved and texted him 3 times last night telling him that if he was done, he could just tell me so that I can have some closure. Nothing… and of course I am the one who looks crazy.

  How can someone be so cruel? I specifically expressed to him that the silence was hurting me and still he behaves as though I don’t exist. All because of a bruised ego that he brought upon himself? I just don’t get it. I wonder if he realises that what perpetuated the disagreement and my telling him I didn’t want to speak to him anymore was HIS behavior and neglect.And meanwhile I am the one who is basically groveling like it’s my fault. How can a 48 year old man act so childish? I am angry, despondent and even obsessed. I admit, it’s all I think about. How pathetic! I have men clamoring to be with me but HE is who I am fixated on. To make things so bad, I am still wating to see if he will text or call. UUUUGGGHHHH…I’m disgusted with myself. He is probably drinking a beer watching football, not even thinking of me and meanwhile I am a psychotic mess. I’m drinking when I know I need to be up early tomorrow. I have a pile of work on my desk that I have been steering at for hours, and that prick is probably showing my text messages to his little gay friends laughing at me calling me a looney bitch…and perhaps I am. It’s not fair

  Reply
  • 

    Nonie

    10/08/2009 at 6:54 am

    Hi Bianca ,

    I know how u feel as I feel the same . You know I have tried something yesterday and it did feel better after that. maybe you could do that .. I sent him hate messages .. not really filled with abusive language but i said whatever I felt about the situation and how he was being an idiot and a selfish person by doing that to me. I also told him that he did not deserve good, kind women like me and am very sure that he will never find one also. Such people only use others and when others need them they disappear .i felt good after that and had a good night sleep . He hasnt replied yet and I dont know whether he has read all those messages I felt that I have conveyed my hurt . I just hope I am strong enough to stay without sending another message .

    Reply
• 

  Bianca

  10/09/2009 at 8:05 pm

  Hi Nonie!

  As muh as I would like to send him some scathing messages, I think it will only make me feel better for the sgort term. Contacting him has been sort of like a drug. My heart beats fast, I press send, then I feel liberated elation for a little while. Soon after I am back to feeling like shit because he has not responded and I second guess myself regretting what I said. Everyday is difficult. I ask myself, is he angry or done? Is he trying to hurt me? I need to get used to the fact that I will probably never know.

  Reply
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  Sarah

  10/09/2009 at 9:50 pm

  So my boyfriend officially ended the silent treatment. He called me about 2 days ago and said that he doesn’t see us working out in the long run. So I’m telling you ladies, the silent treatment is almost never a good thing. I’m crushed, really I am. I was the PERFECT girlfriend. I didn’t nag, I wasn’t clingy, wasn’t needy or whiny. I gave him unlimited amounts of space, let him do his thing. When we met, we just meshed, we laughed together and got along great. I honestly do not understand why he ended things. I am still dazed and very very confused and hurt. I have lost all hope in men. I have never in my life had a stable or committed relationship with a man. I’ve given up, after this relationship especially. I was the perfect girl friend and he just left shows that I have no hope left for me at all.

  Bianca,

  I would advise you to pick up the pieces and just move on. Start going out with your friends and having a good time. Pamper yourself by giving yourself a facial or massage. Try to be as sexy, fun loving and charismatic as you can be and just put yourself out there. You’re so young and you DON’T need that old fart in your life. There are so many other men out there that will be willing to stick it through with you until the end. So just move forward rather than wait around for him to call. He may call or he may not, but don’t wait around to find out. Start living your life and focus on other things! You’ll be the better person because of it.

  Reply
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  Bianca

  10/09/2009 at 11:42 pm

  Aw, Sarah, I am so sorry it ended that way. What a jerk-Dragging things out like that. Break ups are hard but remember, YOU WILL get over it. It may take some time and some healing but the pain will pass little by little everyday unril one morning you will wake up and realise that it was for the best. Who needs douche bag like that anyway right? I laughed so hard when you referred to my M as an old fart. OMG, that’s hilarious!

  Reply
• 

  Debbie

  10/15/2009 at 9:22 am

  Well i am back to being frozen out again! Its been 8 weeks and his mood has gone from bad to worse. I feel invisible like i dont exists. The see through woman that brings meals and washes his dirty clothes.

  Last night i had enough and called him on it. Before i ended my sentence he was saying its because he had two early starts at work and what did i expect? Then it all came out! He is stressed at work and things are not going according to how he would like them to be. He has spoken to his employer who basically ignored him and shown total dis-interest in what he has to say. This has caused him to come home and freeze me out! He hasnt felt like being affectionate towards me because he resents the fact i get to stay at home and play mummy to our two kids. He seems to have forgotten i am attending college to get qualifications so that in the next 2 years i will be out working full time anyway. Its not good enough. He wants to quit his job right now because it is stressfull and because i cannot give him my blessing to do so i am the enemy! If he left his job we would lose our home. There are very minimal jobs out there too as we are in the midst of a recession.

  Meanwhile he wants me to accept this is the way its going to be until i either find him another job or allow his to leave his current one!

  Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

  Reply
  • 

    Renee

    10/18/2009 at 10:34 pm

    Hi
    I understand what you are going through, and I believe the best way to deal with this is to deal with it very gently. This is obviously a very serious but sensitive topic. Its important you take a step back and assess the situation from an unemotionally involved point of view.
    To me it looks like you have discussed with him your worries and concerns in him leaving his job, but maybe because of his problems at work it looks to him like your saying you don’t care that he’s having problems and that the job is more important to you. Basically he may feel used.
    The first thing I believe you need to do is sit him down and tell him that you care about him, and that you understand and care about his problems at work. That you care about his happiness and don’t want to see him so affected and upset by this but that your only speaking from the logical side of things and that maybe doing something rash in the heat of the moment may be a mistake. Try to discuss some options of what he could do instead of walking out on his employer. Maybe something like finding an alternative place of work before the finishes at the place his is at now. Emphasise that you understand and that you care and want to support him in this.
    This should help in terms of his behaviour at home. If he feels supported and loved then he is more likely to want to open up to you and support and care about you too. And this is very important considering you have mentioned that you feel he doesn’t understand you when it comes to him being jealous of you staying at home, when you obviously put in a lot of effort too.
    You both need to re-establish your support and care in each other. But I understand how hard this can be when one person pulls away and takes this trust and care away and lash out. This often becomes a downwards spiral of “you have hurt me so I shall act back in the same way to you” or if one of the couple is showing less emotion the other may pull away too in the fear of rejection. Its important this cycle is broken because it often leads to the end of a relationship, but has started from something minor such as a small argument. I have had this before.
    The best way for both of you to cope with this problem is to rely and support each other through it, and this could be a great opportunity to build upon your relationship. One of you needs to come forward and put some positiveness back into the relationship. Whether its offer to listen or give some support, or advice or just surprise the person with doing something nice for them. They will react positively to this, everyone wants there partner to acting caringly towards them, and you should then be on the right track to sorting things out.
    I hope this helps and that you do sort things out!!

    Reply
    • 

      Debbie

      10/20/2009 at 8:43 am

      Renee thankyou for your reply. I have tried this approach with him but i still cannot get through. This is how he behaves whenever life throws anything remotely challenging at him.

      What really irked me off the other night when he told me all about his work situation was the fact he kept mentioning a girl he works with and stressed that he felt so sorry for her because of the amount of pressure she was under he was doing his best to help her out and take some of her workload from her. He said he saw her crying and couldnt help but feel he wanted to wrap his arms around her and console her. Meanwhile i am taking all the flack for it.

      Reply
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  Denny

  10/18/2009 at 9:02 pm

  Hi Sarah, I just read what you wrote. I can totally empathize with you. I treated my fiancee like a queen, I did everything for her, we fun together, I didnt nag her, I gave all the space she asked for, I told her I wouldnt ask her for anything and I would do anything for her and I did everything she asked. I gave her money, I paid her car payment and her vet bills and I gave her a $3000 engagement ring. Now she is giving me the silent treatment and hasnt talked to me in 2 days! I dont even know why either! Its so sad because I love her to the ends of the universe and back a million times. Dont give up on guys…. there are some good ones left!

  Reply
  • 

    Sarah

    10/19/2009 at 4:46 pm

    Hey Denny!

    Aww you’re very very sweet, I should also throw that compliment back to you, any girl would be lucky to have you. Your fiance is crazy! You treat her so well and in return, she is now giving you the silent treatment? I think the silent treatment is the most cruel sort of treatment anyone can ever mentally instill on an individual. You have no idea what they’re thinking, why they’re doing it, and the person on the receiving end just racks their brain to find out what they have done wrong. Have you at least confronted her about it? Called, texted or emailed? This honestly isn’t fair to you! She should also take into account that there are not many good men like you out there… you really are an exception! Ask me, I would know. I have dated my fair share of men, and every time, I have been disappointed. If I were you, I would contact her some how, ask her what is Gods name is going on. If she doesn’t respond, then leave it alone, she will get back to you eventually. She has to get back to you because absence ALWAYS makes the heart grow fonder. So send her a message and just let it be, maybe all she needs is space?? Let me know how it goes for you Denny, I wish you all the best!

    As for my situation, my ex has now started texting me once in a while… and me being the hopeless romantic that I am, I am responding back in a very friendly manner… a little too friendly! Holding on to false hope maybe? I guess this is better than no contact at all!!! haha **sigh** pathetic i know!!

    Reply
• 

  Renee

  10/18/2009 at 10:02 pm

  Hi
  I need some advice here. I’ve been with this guy I adore for about a year now. And we are relatively happy. When we are happy. But when we do argue its horrible.
  And its mainly due to issues that we both have with the past. You see, when we first met he was in a failing relationship. Even thought we did not get together at the time, I was very much a moral support and a love interest during when he was in the process of moving on from his last relationship. And I stood by him when he was moving out and sorting out his mortgage and just all the other general things to do with the break up. And during that time we got on so well. We thought we were perfect together, and so happy to be together and have each other. He stood by me in my life too because I have had a lot of problems. So we supported each other and cared about each other.
  So then in January things were all sorted. He broke up with his ex, moved out, found a new place and settled in. And we decided to start dating, and that’s where the problems began. He said he needed space and time to let go if his last relationship and that he wasn’t ready to get things serious and wanted to take things slow and described it as “he needed to let his wounds heal before he let someone new in” and I took this and understood it and we took things slow. But we started arguing after that.
  And after we started arguing he got back in contact with his ex, and left messages on his face book like “I miss her” and “I hate valentines, why be reminded” and I lost my trust to him. Before we were so close and he meant everything to me and I did to him. And he would assure me that we were something new, that his ex gave him a hard time and that he wouldn’t want her back. And then he went and started talking to her again. So I cant get myself to trust him anymore no matter how much I try.
  All logic says he doesn’t have a love interest in her, he moved out, said she manipulated and abused him emotionally, spend a lot of money to get himself off the mortgage dealing with lawyers and mortgage brokers, ignored her for months, why would he do that only to then still be interested in her? It wouldn’t make sense.
  But the point is, before our relationship was sacred and special and more important then the last, and then he brought her back on the scene and this all fell down. He has never justified himself to me, or said sorry. Only saying that he doesn’t want her back. But this doesn’t stand for anything with me since he lied last time he said that.
  Now we have got back together he is still saying that he isn’t ready, he justifies this with saying that his ex has put him through a lot of abuse and that for 5 years he spend all the time putting in the effort looking after her and caring for her, and loving her and putting so much into the relationship but getting nothing back. That she closed him out of her life emotionally and physically, once she got too involved in her career. She didn’t give him the affection and love that he gave her and she instead got very clingy and controlling and emotionally manipulative. We have had our arguments and he says he is afraid of what happened in the past to happen to us, because of the arguments we have had, and maybe somewhat due to my untrusting ways (similar to his ex) and how I had reacted to some days when he hasn’t been honest with me, due to this lack of trust. I suppose to him it looks like his ex’s behaviour. To me it looks justified because I feel betrayed and don’t feel like this relationship is special and exclusive anymore. I feel like there are three people in it…me, him and his ex. And I’m scared to trust him and let him in. And due to this he holds me at arms length, and says he wants to “take things slow” and isn’t ready for something serious. Because of his past.
  The way this whole mess relates to this article is that recently we made a bit of a resolution, on my birthday he took me for diner and he said he wants to make a fresh start and try to make this work. I said yes.
  The next Sunday he was doing a marathon for charity which I have supported him and stood by him for and been training with him for it. I was very happy and looking forward to it till he mentioned that his ex might be there, with her new man, to support a friend of his who is doing the marathon too, and that since she upsets me so much and I hate seeing her (I keep bumping into her and she is a foul mouthed little cow who has too much to say about me) it might be best that I don’t go. And that he is only saying this for me because he doesn’t want me to be upset. At this point I got very upset and said he wants her to be there more than me, and asked him if he has feelings for her. To which he said no. This then progressed to become a full blown argument. And he did the marathon without me, only texting me to say she wasn’t there, that he has had enough of my abusive behaviour and he has realised the kind of person I am if I can abuse someone after they have done a 13km run, and that he doesn’t want my abuse anymore and that I should take it elsewhere. He shall talk to me when he feels like it. He hasn’t talked to me since then. I do agree I was wrong for acting irrationally and overreacting and have said sorry and whatnot but he hasn’t spoken to me since and its been a week. I don’t know whether he is giving me the silent treatment, or just having some time to cool off, as a friend of mine said. But I’m going through agony. He wont answer my calls or text and I haven’t contacted him for a few days now. I just want to resolve things and move on.
  I don’t know what to do. I don’t know if its just because he’s still angry at me. Or that this is it, and he just doesn’t feel the need to resolve anything because this is the end. I thought I would give him some time to think. But now I just don’t know. Could anyone give me some advice? I just don’t know what to do. I want to apologise and resolve things, but at the same time I’m upset at him for doing this to me? And I know he will never apologise for it because he believes I am in the wrong. I don’t know whether I’m the victim because I did upset him in the first place, and the first thing I did after we decided to make a fresh start is bring up the past and use it to crucify him, just because his ex might unintentionally be at a marathon he is doing. But at the same time, he hasn’t spoken to me for a week and I don’t know what to do. I’m going through so much pain and worry. I don’t know if it is the silent treatment or he just doesn’t want to talk to me because he is angry and wants to cool of and think.
  Either way, I’m confused and upset and worried.
  Any advice would be much appreciated.

  Reply
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  butthatsjustme

  10/26/2009 at 5:25 pm

  To me, the silent treatment is about nothing more than unrestrained feelings of selfishness and control in the person initiating the silent treatment. I’ve seen some really messed up behavior stemming from the silent treatment tactic. No need to go into what’s already been written.

  It takes courage to say, “I’m having a problem and I’d like to talk about it with you”. People that aren’t emotionally available will either run away or use your vulnerability against you. Total silence is BS and shows me I’m dealing with an emotional child. Sadly, those people wind up robbing themselves of the quality relationships they want so badly in the first place. Yes, I know exactly what I’m writing about because I’ve done all of the above, genuinely regret my past behavior and I’m still dealing with the fallout from things I did so long ago. Counseling got me to ‘see’ what I was doing to myself.

  All that said, I’ve sometimes ended relationships that are simply broken. Continuing a dead relationship makes me codependent.

  Reply
• 

  Venus

  10/28/2009 at 1:44 pm

  Try being married to one of these. It’s absolutely awful. My husband would do this at first for 1 or 2 days and then it progressed into weeks, the most recent one lasting about 1.5-2 months. Can you imagine living in this environment where not a word is spoken? I used to call him to apologize all the time (for what, I don’t know) and always was the one who’d speak to him, after he’d ignore me and walk by me for days on end but that all ended a month ago when I left my marital home. I waited til he was at home and left. We are now “separated.” In addition to stonewalling me, he is rude, mean, and has told me he will do and say things just to upset me. Why would anyone do this? We have been together for 6 years, married for almost 3. Now he finally admits he has done and said the wrong things & should think before speaking but it’s like he still doesn’t get how all the silence is at the top of my list. Has anyone else been in a marriage like this??? What do you do? Each time I call him on it, he counters it with something that I have done wrong, totally unrelated! And these people want you to grovel. They get high off it. They will never give an inch. My experience is that it has worsened over time. At the end of his most recent ‘no talking’ spell, he came up to me and asked me if there was any particular reason I was ignoring him. I said, “No. I am just tired of trying to placate you.” I told him I was done. I do not deserve to be treated this way by anybody. He was not always this way, in fact quite the charmer, but as soon as we married, he did a 180. Even out in public he acts like I bother him. I just want affection from my husband. To the people who are single and dating, if someone does this to you once without apologizing sincerely, DROP them. Do not let it get as far as anything serious or a marriage. The day after our wedding, my husband didn’t speak to me until about 6 p.m.! On his birthday this year, I woke up and wished him a happy bday, left him a present on his nightstand, and he didn’t even look at me! Didn’t say one word and just walked out the door! He didn’t speak to me for ONE week, people! No reason why other than that he was “mad at me.” For what?! Now he calls me and tells me he thinks we both have to be willing to work on our issues, that we should go slow. I have given him so many chances to the point I don’t know what to do anymore. Everytime I do, he lets me down. I was raised in a happy family so this is otherworldly to me. His family is also nice so I have no idea where this comes from. I do know that it has caused me severe anxiety and depression, it’s so invalidating to me ignored by your own husband. I have gone to kiss him on the cheek before and he will tell me that he’s busy. With what? I’m not even sure this is salvageable. We don’t have children, which is a plus, cause I can’t imagine them being in this situation with daddy not talking to mommy. At the end I was just avoiding him also like he does me because I was so tired of being rejected by the one man who is supposed to love me. I am in my late 20s, attractive, work a full-time job, and am a very happy person so it sucks being with someone so negative. He did go to counselling with me after refusing it for months, he went one time and never went back. I still go. Alone.
  I know this: if someone ignores you, move on. It’s not worth your time. It’s a severe form of emotional abuse and they want to control/punish you.
  I would never do this to anyone close to me. It’s so hard when you are married to someone like this. Advice??? Anyone who is married & has been through this?

  Reply
• 

  butthatsjustme

  10/28/2009 at 7:31 pm

  I’ve been on both sides of the silent treatment. I was married and lost a later relationship because both partners and I practiced the silent treatment. The behavior in my family goes back generations. I’m not a counselor or therapist. Some things I’ve come to realize about silent treaters and my experience I’d like to share:

  1. There may be deep-seated unresolved emotional issues in the initiator that most likely precede the relationship and may have nothing to do with the target of the silent treatment. i.e. it may not be you.

  2. The typical initiator defense is to attack the target overtly or passively when confronted about the formers behavior, i.e. emotional child. Participating in their silent treatment game gives them their power. This is where a lot of us mess up. Imagine being in a tug of war.

  Set your personal boundaries clearly. “I don’t have to tolerate unacceptable behavior from anyone, specifically the silent treatment I’m getting from you”. Answering the “I don’t know what you mean” response is a trick to keep you in the struggle. Imagine again being in a tug of war, simply dropping the rope and not picking it up again. Saying anything more is counter-productive to taking care of yourself. Say it without emotion. Practice with someone else if you have too. Detachment is essential as emotional tone of voice, body language or gestures will defeat your message. Above all, stay calm and your boundary only has to be told once to the initiator so it’ll have the greatest effect. Repetition will undo your efforts.

  Do not make any threats that you don’t intend to carry out. Do not make threatening physical contact with the initiator.

  Then go out and do something healthy for yourself and without guilt. If asked later, you can say, “I went out to do something I like.” You don’t have to say anything else because you answered the question and respected your personal boundary.

  Try to go about your life as you would if the initiator were talking to you. Demonstrate to yourself that you don’t require responses to everything you say or do. Examples are “Good Morning”, “Hi” or “Good Night”. Is an answer really that important? Asking that question helps you identify your motives.

  3. If the silent treater gets physical, then call the law. Get out if you can. Threatening statements or physical contact in a relationship is domestic violence. The police are required by law to answer every call. Let the police sort it out.

  4. You will be constantly ‘invited’ back into the silent treatment ‘dance’ by the initiator. Look for the clues, most are obvious and some will be subtle. If you step into the ‘dance’ and then leave later feeling worse than before…you may have accepted an invitation. Trying to figure out what/why the initiator is up to can drive even the most sane people nuts. It’s not your job to get inside their heads.

  5. You can change your behavior, not theirs. It’s okay to give yourself permission to find help for yourself. Learn with the support of someone else on setting your personal boundaries. Leaving family and friends out of your efforts may help keep those relationships and maintain a healthy level of privacy for you. Learn about how your expectations can sabotage your efforts. Learn about shaming tactics. Learn about co-dependence.

  Looks simple, but it’s not easy. It’s about your progress and not perfection. Whatever the case, you’ll be taking care of yourself. If you don’t get it ‘just right’, then try again and keep at it. It took a while for you to get here and it may take a while to begin feeling better again about yourself.

  The relationship will either get better or worse and sometimes it won’t be up to you.

  You are not alone. This blog is evidence of that. You can feel better. I’ve been working on all of the above for some time now. Some of my relationships are simply broken, others are slowly healing and my current relationship is doing okay. I took the first steps and let everyone else figure out what they wanted to do. I still wash, rinse, repeat. That’s just the way it is for me as I work on undoing decades of my dysfunctional behavior. I forgave myself too. I’m just another person with feelings. How I act on them is up to me. The freedom I have now from being my own person and not the master of others is simply priceless.

  Good luck.

  Reply
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  Veronica

  11/02/2009 at 12:28 am

  This is the first time that I feel compelled to write something. I didn’t know there were so many people out there that gave the silent treatment. I am a woman working with another woman in a small office, just the two of us. When she first started, maybe for the first two years, everything was fine, and then it happened. I said something that offended her. She wouldn’t talk to me for days, and then eventually, she came around and we were able to talk about it openly, and she seemed almost glad that I became so upset and I had a hard time sleeping. That was 5 years ago, and now it happens about every two weeks. I honestly believe that she is bipolar or has very serious mental problems. Everytime she does that to me, I like her less and less. I am a pretty open person and I am willing always to hear why she is mad at me and how we can work to resolve our problems. Lately, though, when she goes into her silent treatment, I end up doing the same to her because I am so tired and frustrated over the whole situation. To be honest,if I didn’t work with her I would walk away from a crazy person like this and never want any contact with her for the rest of my life. But I have no choice and I don’t know how to deal with this. There is no chance of either of us leaving our jobs.

  Reply
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  Sarah

  11/13/2009 at 12:00 am

  Well It’s happening again! I made the mistake of maintaining contact with my EX and I’m back to the same place as I was when we broke up. A depressed and pitiful wreck. We broke up about a month ago and a few days later, he started texting me. We kept texting back and forth, updating each other about our lives and what we were doing over the weekend. I honestly thought that this would have led to a reconciliation on both of our ends. EVen though he broke up with me out of the blue, and had no reason to end things…. I still had this lingering urge to get back with him. So he called me last Wednesday, sounding extremely chipper and happy. We had a good conversation, and in the end he stated that he would like to meet up with me over the weekend. I hung up the phone feeling extremely happy. The weekend came and went, no word from him. Now it has officially been over a week since that phone call and I have not heard from him. He never even called about “hanging out.” Why does he keep doing this to me? As soon as he has got me on his boat, he starts ignoring me, and I have to get right back off again. It is very emotionally draining every time he does this. I constantly look at my phone to see if he has texted or called, and become extremely dissapointed when there is no sign of him on my cell. I hate him for what he does to me but at the same time, I can’t let go of it because I love him so much. I don’t know what to do anymore. I have a feeling that he will never want to meet me, and him saying “lets meet up” is just like playing a game for him. He says it just to hear the eagerness in my voice, and after he receives that sick high, it’s right back to ignoring me again. I suppose the best thing to do is to cut off, now I just have to deal with the pain in letting go of the false hopes and start the recovery process all over again.

  Reply
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  Lisa

  11/13/2009 at 1:54 pm

  Hi Sarah,

  It sounds like you have a typical narcissist on your hands. The pattern of dumping and returning to you is called ‘devalue and discard’ followed by ‘hoovering’ where they suck you in all over again.

  Please go to an incredible forum I came upon by accident some months ago that literally saved my sanity. I promise you will come to understand very quickly what he is doing, why and how to deal with it. It’s at lisaescott.com.

  Lisa E Scott posts regularly on there and the support from her and other members is tremendous. You ALWAYS get many replies to any questions or topics you want to bring up, no matter what they are, and the forum is helping a lot of people through a lot of pain. And what is really validating is that other people have experienced exactly the same thing – even the small, insignificant stuff we brush aside – and at last it feels like it’s about them, not us.

  Let me know how you get on x

  Reply
• 

  confuzzled

  11/13/2009 at 4:02 pm

  I get this all the time from my mother, then again she was abused for a year or so before I was born, so that may have something to do with it.
  She also accuses me of emotionally abusing her, insulting her or trying to control her in some way, which is really far from the truth. I try to be as diplomatic as possible with her but still in some way will come off as insulting to her, which is really making me start to believe that she’s an untreated bipolar or something (Menopause probably has something to do with it as well?). I’ll just mention something that surprises me about her or give a comment and she takes it as an attack and then turns it against me by using the “silent treatment”. She does this all the time and it seems to come and go in cycles. Also, when something doesn’t go her way she basically shrugs it off as “people want to screw me over”. It’s weird stuff, guys and it has only become worse after my grandmother (her mother) died a few years ago.

  I just wish we could have an emotionally healthy mother/daughter relationship talk out our differences like normal folks do, but she seems to be completely on the defensive all the time. I’m trying my best not to get sucked into her emotionally damaged behavior.

  Reply