The Silent Treatment – What You Are Saying By Not Saying Anything At All

Lolana 2 December 2009 at 4:56 am Permalink

It makes me feel better to come back to this page and read.

Silent treatment from family has gone on for years now.

My brother was the only one who would talk to me, and very little at that.

They ignore me because the topic of my mother is forbidden in the family. My Mom was the bitter enemy of my Dad’s current wife. She died when I was young.

Mom died, Dad remarried this woman, with whom he’d been having an affair for a number of years. She immediately had two kids, who were the brightest spots in the very dark adolescent years that followed. I loved them and took good care of them, but they also learned that I was on some kind of a lower plane than they were, and that it was OK to act like a jerk to me. I tried not to blame them for their insensistivity.

My Mom’s existence became a secret. I wanted to tell my little brother and sister that I (and my other sister) had an actual Mom who had been really cool. But we were not allowed to talk about my Mom, have pictures, etc. I lost almost all my memories of her.

I tried to be a good sister to my younger siblings and invited them all into my home and my life, introduced them to my friends, entertained them when they came to town, etc. We are all grown now.

But they just didn’t seem that interested in me and for over a decade now just do not call or anything, ever. When I have seen them, they ask nothing about my life, they are not interested. It is sad.

My brother is in the military and went to Afghanistan and I finally wrote him a letter and told him about what happened in the family and why I can’t be around them anymore. I really tried to consider his feelings as I wrote the letter, but I needed him to know I cannot play their games anymore. Their favorite game is Why Lolana Needs To Be Straightened Out. I am a successful person in my career, have a loving partner, and have lived an interesting life, had many lovers, (but settled down for 7 years now). I am a cool person to know. My friends are interesting and accomplished and sometimes well-known. I live in a big, international city, and it’s a great place to visit. A few years ago I was amazed to find that all my siblings wanted to get together. We all met in Vegas for a weekend and it was a bit strange. They acted as if they really didn’t want to be there.

I tried to ignore their weirdness, because I was happy to see them all, and after years of silence, I thought it was nice that they would make the effort. Previously they had never been interested in coming back home at the same time I did, etc.

During the trip, I told them stories about my life, about my boyfriend, my job, and an ex boyfriend who fell on misfortune, who they all knew. It was odd because none of them shared information about their own lives. My sister, who had three kids with one on the way, did not talk about her children at all. My brother related one anecdote and everyone sort of sneered at it in a condescending way, and he never said another word. I was the only one who yakked on and on, being the entertainer.

I began to feel uncomfortable, as if they were having conversations about me behind my back. But I ignored it, because they have always been strange. But at the end of the weekend, they sat me down and told me they disapproved of my personal life choices. It was a sit-down confrontation-style event. I was stunned that they had been discussing me amongst themselves in such a way. They didn’t offer the details of their lives, their problems and conflicts and heartbreaks and triumphs—nothing of the sort–so for them to sit down and judge me was such a surprise..shouldn’t have been since my Dad and Stepmom have been doing that exact thing my entire life. But I am an adult now, and have been on my own for quite a long time, fighting my battles and losing at love and then finally winning….I am proud of what I’ve made of myself and it was such a horrible shock, what they did. Partly because my sister, my full sister with whom I share a Mom, had always confided in me with a “please don’t tell Mom and Dad” proviso “because you know how judgemental and meddling they are” etc etc.

This very sister led the charge…without ever having talked to me in private…in fact now I remember that when the two of us went off by ourselves just one time out of the whole weekend, she chose not to talk to me, but made small talk with someone else.

So they saved this bit of sincerity for the last 20 minutes of the whole trip…then got on a plane. My sister and half sister departed immediately after, and I was left with my brother and my Dad. My stepmom had stayed behind to take care of my sister’s kids.

After it sunk in what had happened, I began to cry…I couldn’t help it….it was devastating.

My brother wouldn’t talk to me about it afterward, when I asked him if he was part of it he said yes, but refused to discuss it further. When I started crying then, he terminated the conversation.

So finally I realized I can never have any kind of honest relationship with these people unless I have it known that 1)you must respect me and 2) you must respect my mother’s memory. I tried to convey my thoughts to my brother in letters, which I sent with care packages, to Afghanistan.

He did not respond at all. I think I got one email from him when he first went over. I recorded all my friends to cassette saying they wished him well and sending thoughts to his troops, and sent a small cassette player and batteries so he could hear them. I sent wonderful pictures of the family from all ages, including pics of me and my little sister when we were little—pics he probably had never seen since our old life was forbidden topic…very cute pics too. I didn’t send any of my mom, just us kids.

And of course I sent some other stuff that he needed.

After the third package and no response I stopped sending things. I was too upset. I wanted to be supportive but with no acknowledgement I just thought “fuck it.”

When he got back, he actually called me and we had like an hour of chitchat. I was delighted to hear from him.

Then nothing after that.

Then the shooting happened at Ft. Hood.

That’s where he was.

I was alarmed and called and left a message. Hours later having heard nothing back I called again and practically begged for a call back. I said “just two words: I’m OK. that’s all I want to hear”

I also emailed my Dad, and he did email me back the next day to let me know he was OK.

I knew hearing nothing was probably no big deal, no news is good news kind of thing, but I hardly slept that night. The phone never rang.

And it still hasn’t.

I wish I were more surprised, because my family has elevated ignoring me to a fine art over the years.

But after this I realize I have to protect myself. I simply cannot go there anymore.

Oh, and that is not even mentioning the packages I sent to my sister’s kids, who in friendlier days I really liked. No response, no reply nothing.

My stepmom has been telling lies about me since day one. It is all through my high school journals, she would make things up to make it look like I said and did things I didn’t say or do. My sister would believe her and if I got her off by herself once in a blue moon she would sometimes tell me what was said and I would be able to tell her I had said no such thing.

I can only imagine what’s been made up about me. It does sort of shock and horrify me that these kids I cared for so much and gave so much of myself to over the years, do not even care that I had a Mom, or that her memory deserves recognition. My little half sister stopped speaking to me after I was a little tipsy and brought up my mother in conversation on the phone one night. That was it, boom, she never talked to me again except to be a bitch. (A month after I lost a job I’d held for 11 years, and I sent an email to the family seeking feedback/support, she told me it was time to “move on.” And also mentioned that I was wrong about what I was asking in the email. It was done in such a condescending, smarmy way (“I only care about you and want the best for you” and so you should stop feeling the way you’re feeling right now and just get over it.” kinda thing). She is 14 years younger and certainly never worked a job she cared passionately for for over a decade, at that point…and it wasn’t like I was bothering them with emails ..it was my first one!!!

My father’s part was to tell me that I was at fault for the problems, and that I should “work on myself.”

(I’ve been in and out of therapy for some 15 years now, mostly in.)

At some point I wonder if any of them will try to gain my trust again. Probably not, because the family myth is that I’m a fuckup. No matter what the truth is, I guess my sibs will always believe that. They will always believe I am not worth knowing, because that is what their parents encourage them to believe. My stepmom doesn’t like me because I remind of my mother—-and she hated me from the beginning, was very violent and abusive while we were growing up. My sister would just beg forgiveness for her ‘transgressions’ (picture this, a seven year old child begging forgiveness from someone who is terrorizing her…I will never forget some of the things that happened).

It is so horrible and sad, and they are far away, and I guess I have to really and truly put these people behind me.

I am grateful that along the way, I have had such wonderful friends outside the family who have given me wisdom and strength and compassion. My mother did teach me how to love, and and be loved, and for that I am very grateful. I am also grateful that my memories of her are coming back, after several years of completely not speaking to the member of the family who wish to forget she ever existed. It is awful to me that two people my mother loved more than anything—my father and my sister–would shun me because I think my mother should be remembered and that her memory should not be hidden like a shameful secret.

What do I do if they try to get into my life again? How could I ever trust them again? For several years I cannot describe the depression after the Vegas trip happened (2006). The Christmas after was terrible. I am feeling better now.

But holidays just suck. These people really tried to make me believe that my reality is “wrong” and that my ideas about what life is about, are inappropriate and silly. I sort of thought my brother cared a little, but all he was really doing was making gestures to make himself feel less guilty about ignoring me, maybe. When my brother was little he and my Dad came to see me where I live, we spent a week, did all kinds of things, it was fun and good for my brother, and he got better soon after.

That it’s all for nothing and they simply must cease to exist for me is so weird. But as far as they are concerned I obviously might as well be dead. It has been so long now.

Any thought welcome but mostly thanks for letting me tell my story of the silent treatment and how it has worked in my life.

Reply

Sue 9 December 2009 at 5:47 pm Permalink

Lolana

You sound like veyr beautiful communicative person. I read all your postings (it took awhile). Your mother should absolutely have been acknowledged. Well done for trying to build the bridges, I’m sure that was not easy at all.

Know who your true friends are from the actions, and respect, from people all the little signs too. Take note of who adds positivity to your life and who leaves you feeling down or upset. Then take action accordingly. It is their issues, you can only control what is within your control.

We all like to have good relations with our nearest and dearest, it seems its not always possible. Not everyone knows how to be civil or decent in relations.

I am glad you seem to be happier now, it helps to see the situation for what it truly is, warts and all. Helps the healing for us. Then we know how to deal with it, for our own well being.

The answer here is to do the things for you that make you happy and take care of yourself. You sound a really lovely person, thank you for sharing your situations, and I’m sure it helped you air it, but know that you have also helped others such as myself.

All the very best to you.

Sue

Reply
peter 20 February 2010 at 2:41 am Permalink

Lolana,

Really sorry to hear about your situation…. I’m in a similar situation, and unless you behave in a way they expect you to behave, I’m afraid you will have no place in their lives. On the flip side, you sound like you have worked a lot of “stuff” out. There’s thoughtfulness, intelligence and articulation in what you’re saying. Not sure if this is a positive or a negative, but you have had to figure all this out for yourself, and it’s possible that you’re missing the point about something that you’re EXPECTED to know. Of course, you may be absolutely right. But the situation really is s nuts. How can you understand this for sure without feedback?

I’m feeling that someone has a realm of control and there are lots of people influenced by ithis person, and untill the people under this realm of control become enlightened individuals, like yourself, hang tight.

If you’re spending all this energy in the hope of reconciliation, and nothing is being returned, then it’s possible that your family think that you owe them something… only a guess, but that’s what I’ve figured out for myself in my situation. Doing well for yourself means you’ve proven you can stand on your own two feet and get on with life. With this attitude, you’ve gained knowledge, experience and wisdom.

However, it is also possible that some people have not evolved in the ways you have (and it’s possible you might be expecting them to have evolved as much as you) which could be the sticking point. What were you like before you started transistioning your life and attitudes (or when did the positive changes start happenning)? Perhaps that’s the person your family are expecting you to be the person you were before….?

As I have been told by a wise and clever man about my situation… “If you’re in a group of people who don’t share your views, you’re probably better off without them”. If people are stealing your energy, stay away. It’s a two-way street. It’s a sad situation I know, I’m in that place, but after a long time thinking it through, I can only hope that something changes and perhaps that will be the catalyst for further events.

Until then, enjoy what you have – be who you are, and perhaps one day you may get the communication you’re hoping to get, but don’t hold your breath… there seems to be some ingrained behavioural patterns which may never go, and they might be expecting you to be the one who admits their wrong…

Good luck, and never doubt yourself.

Reply
Lori 31 May 2010 at 10:04 pm Permalink

Wow. I didn’t note the link of Lolanna’s post, but I have to say, I can relate to the family secrets deal, and the prevalence of the silent treatment in my life. You actually provided a nice little epiphany for me just then.. about how I have unconsciously sought out others who do the same to me. Interesting. Decisions about the course of our life can happen in an instant, and make enough sense that no rumination is needed – just action. Immediately. I just decided I don’t need that. Thanks.

I wish I could talk to you in real life.

Reply

Venus 2 December 2009 at 2:30 pm Permalink

Denise, I don’t agree with your article. It’s not that people “allow” someone be rude or mean or completely shut them out of their life. We are only responsible for our own actions, not someone else’s, no matter how much one “loves” themself. I cannot tell you how many times I told my husband that stonewalling me does not resolve any problems, yet he continued to do it, willingly and out of spite. For days, weeks, months. Can you imagine living in a home with someone who refuses to speak to you, even when you ask how their day is? I would leave the house, go for a workout, visit with family, but no matter what, he would still be avoiding/ignoring me with no explanation whatsoever. It is complete emotional abuse. I was happy in all areas of my life except for my marriage and dreaded going home to him because of this “treatment.” Eventually I stopped engaging him altogether. And by the time the last episode ended I was completely mentally checked out of our relationship. I couldn’t do it any longer. I would never ever do this to anyone, not even him, not even now.

Reply

Lolana 5 December 2009 at 4:29 am Permalink

yes yes yes yes….thank you for saying this…

all we can do is control our own actions and a straightforward and nonthreatening invitation to talk is not abuse, no matter what.

refusing to talk is mental and emotional violence. i’m talking about the silent treatment that never ends like you’re describing. No matter what you do, you cannot win, and it doesn’t help when other people tell you to “take the high road” “try to be more understanding” “respect their pain” when they are not respecting yours.

my stepmom and other family members rebuffed my attempts at communication by telling me I was just wrong and that I should get over the past. unfortunately the present is not improved, it is worse.

there are all kinds of mental tricks people use to justify this behavior and I buy none of them anymore.

Reply

Kathi 3 December 2009 at 1:15 am Permalink

I’d like some insight into my adult children who are giving me the silent treatment. I have a wonderful, close relationship with my daughter’s children, my grandchildren. My daughter, whose father abandoned her when she was 13, has adopted this tough girl persona, and I have been at the brunt of all of her issues for 18 years. She is now 31. While it would take way too long to go into all the issues, and there are always two sides to every story — mine in a nutshell is she and my son got angry at me — won’t tell me why, won’t give me the opportunity to resolve the issue (I’m a communicator), won’t give me the opportunity to apologize (for whatever I did — they said I would figure it out). And, my daughter has now decided to give me the silent treatment for 5 months and not let me see my grandkids. She has no issues with my love and care for them — she just uses them as pawns to control me. I was left out of the first day of school, my granddaughter’s 2nd birthday, Thanksgiving, my grandson’s birthday is tomorrow, and I fear Christmas. I’m struggling with this, and I’ve already tried twice in the last 5 months to open communication, but it’s stonewalled. I read all the articles, I do my spiritual, physical, volunteer work, etc., I don’t rely on them for my happiness, but I feel abandoned, alone and I suffer heartache over not seeing my grandchildren for so long. There are no articles on emotional abuse from adult children to parents (in this case single mother). Everyone says I have to wait, which is what I’ve been doing, but I am suffering over the loss of the love and affection of my family, and mostly my sweet grandchildren, who adore me and probably don’t know what in the he** is going on.

Reply

Lolana 5 December 2009 at 4:54 am Permalink

Wow that just is so sad, I am so sorry. You know what I have a friend whose daughter is doing the exact same thing to her. She is a lovely woman and her daughter has somehow turned her son against her. He says the most awful things to her and then ignores her calls, said he would call on her birthday and then didn’t call until 11:30 that night, she got sadder and sadder as the day went on, she was so close to her grandson and helped raise him when he was a little kid because her daughter was very young and needed the help. I think he even lived with her for all those years.

Me too. I do all the spiritual stuff too. The only thing that would get them to talk to me is groveling and saying what a jerk and a slob I am and hopefully I can reform my ideas and feelings more to their liking. Adult children and grandchildren do abuse their parents and grandparents and my grandmother used to take terrible abuse from my aunt, and from one of my cousins. I always wondered why she didn’t stand up to them.

After years and years of being the “communicator” and “trying” I have given up with my family and it’s like a weight off my chest. There is absolutely nothing I have to say, to someone who refuses to speak to me and ignores emails and doesn’t return letters or online greetings of any sort.

And I don’t want to hear anymore how “hard” the issues are for them or on them. It’s always harder on the one who gets ignored, who doesn’t get taken seriously, who gets dissed behind the back and who never gets an answer to the basic question of “what are the charges against me?” That’s what our constitution is for….and that’s how our law of the land handles disputes…we have the right to know charges against us, if we are to be punished or held accountable for some terrible wrong we have done.

Course that took a beating in Guantanamo, but I digress.

Hope you see my point, though, that everyone has a right to know what the problem is, if someone is punishing them for something. Withholding that information or response is nothing but “I have power over you.” That’s all it is.

And Patricia Evans says in her book about Verbal Abuse, that there are two kinds of power: power Over others, and power With others. Abusers think in terms of power over others—everything is a power game to them. Someone must always come out on top, and that means someone always has to come out the bottom.

If you’re thinking in terms of resolving the issue, then you are working toward a different power type of power arrangement amongst people. That would be power “with” others, the kind of collaborative power that combines the intellects and abilities of a group of people who trust each other enough to put their best self forward. This kind of collaborative atmosphere depends on truth, trust and accountability. Communication is a checks and balances system. You cannot right the system all by yourself, and if it is damaging your heart and hurting, maybe you are trying too hard, maybe it’s better to let them go.

I sure feel better since I let my Ignorers go, and it is an amazing feeling when you are surrounded by people who like you, think you’re cool, and would never dream of freezing you out.

Just a whole other universe. Life really does not have to suck like that. And I don’t have to be anywhere that people are ensuring it will suck by their crappy behavior. I can leave.

And I’m glad I did….but does it hurt?

Yeah, it hurts. But I cannot control them. I tried everything for so many years, danced to their tunes and went along with their humiliation rituals. Not anymore.

Reply

Stephanie 3 December 2009 at 4:05 am Permalink

Wow. I’m glad I came across this article tonight. Presently, I’m the recipient of someone’s “silent treatment.” I’ve been baffled by this person’s unresponsive behavior. We seemed to be forming a good friendship–emailing and texting frequently, talking on the phone–and then BAM! He suddenly stopped responding to any attempt I made at communicating with him. I reflected back upon the day that the silent treatment began and tried to determine if I might have offended him or hurt his feelings somehow. I can’t think of anything I might have done to cause him to simply ignore me. I sent one last email asking if I had done something to anger him and I stated that ignoring someone certainly doesn’t help to correct a problem. Well, that’s the last attempt I’m making at reaching out to him.

What troubles me the most is that I simply don’t know what happened, what caused the behavior. Was it something I did? Didn’t do? I’m someone who likes to acknowledge mistakes so that I don’t repeat them, but if someone doesn’t tell me what I might have done wrong, then I can’t take any corrective action.

Or is he just an immature jerk, cowardly ignoring confrontation? If he simply lost interest in me or decided he didn’t like me, that’s fine. I’m a big girl–I can take well-communicated rejection. I won’t fly out of control if someone says, “I don’t want to be your friend anymore and I don’t like you.” It would hurt, but at least I can appreciate the candor and closure.

I do think that some people are inclined to use the silent treatment because they can’t argue or discuss sensitive or difficult topics effectively. It is a power trip for them. It is emotionally abusive, in my opinion. The behavior seems to be a tool used by an immature and slightly sadistic mind.

Reply

Lolana 5 December 2009 at 5:35 am Permalink

Sounds like your energy is better spent elsewhere..well you were just getting to know him.

I learned to not play with this type of guy who will do this, ie behave like a jerk and act like it’s your fault he’s being a jerk.

You can spot em pretty good when you come to the point in the relationship where they don’t put their nice on and you see what they’ll really do in a conflict situation.

If you get out before you’re too involved, you’ll laugh later about what a bonehead he was and thank god you dodged that bullet.

i agree, it’s disgusting behavior. it’s like a hot stove for me…just can’t put my hand there. sometimes that type of thing fascinated me because I was sure I had done something wrong and felt I had to find out why. Truth is it wasn’t about me, it was about the other person, in all these cases. Because they did it not to me, but others around them, too. Once i realized that, I realized that these people just learned for whatever reason, that it’s OK to be a jerk to people. One guy did this to me, and I actually blew him off completely after that because I was really kind of liking him. I just stopped it cold, and after a while he came wondering why I didn’t come talk to him anymore (at work) and I just hemmed and hawed with some bullshit, that is I didn’t answer. He knows why. To his credit, he also did some nice things for me. But I am glad I didn’t get involved! He was a better casual friend if I didn’t care for him too personally. And just a work friend at that. Gone haven’t seen for years and that’s fine. I’d be happy to run into him somewhere at some point and it’s all good with me now. But getting too close would have been too hard on my mind, which I feel I need to protect from the jackals.

Reply
- Stephanie 5 December 2009 at 5:46 am Permalink
  
  Thanks for the input Lolana! After a couple of more days reviewing the “evidence” (or lack thereof), I’ve decided that he’s just a jerk. It’s unfortunate, but true. It’s just amusing how jerks can surface in “sheep’s clothing” so-to-speak–hot and nice for awhile, then cold and distant, a short while later. At first, I was somewhat hurt and angry by this behavior, but once I read this column, spoke to some friends, and read some articles by professionals in the psychology field, I realized that the “silent treatment” in this case is more about this guy’s poor interpersonal relationship skills than it is about me or anything I did.
  
  That said, I still think it’s totally bizarre behavior–very odd and uncalled for. Rather than feeling hurt now, I just feel sorry for him. I suspect he’s done this several times before and that’s why he’s alone. And I’m moving on quite quickly!
  
  Reply
  - Sue P 9 December 2009 at 5:39 pm Permalink
    
    Oh my goodness, Stephanie, we have a near identical situation, except I was further down the dating line in terms of time to you. I saw a guy 4 yrs on and off, there was a 1 yr gap where he had genuine personal reasons to deal with due to an ex-wife. (I should have seen the signs re the ex-wife, but I believed him, and he was very charming at the start!!!)
    
    Anyhow I forgave him and took him back. We were dating but this silent treatment was exactly the same as you describe. I only wish I had come across this site 10 months ago, as I have spend months confused, sad, hurt about how to explain such behaviour; but I am finally here, and thank you all posters it’s been really helpful reading. Like you I like answers, closure, even to be told if its best we dont be in touch again ever.
    
    However now I realise all these types of behaviours are emotiionally/psychologically abusive (I believe some men do it through selfishness of their own personality and not intentional abuse). They are about control. There are probably other little signs in your relations too, e.g. manipulative actions.
    
    In the end I realise I wont get closure from him, they are not into considering your feelings to discuss things, they are too selfish for that. Emotional intelligence is lacking too. As others have said you cant control others, only your own self and your own behaviour, your own reactions to situations.
    
    I couldnt even try to discuss things with him about us, or to help him. It was always when he wanted to, when he was ready. He just decides and thats it. Like I have no say, again that is control.
    
    Because I do love, communicate and care, I now feel hurt the way I do. But now I realise I must for my own mental well being realise this is all about him, immature behaviour in relations and I have to give myself closure. It wont come from him.
    
    I really loved him, which is why I allowed it to continue, even when I was not feeling happy many times, at the time I didnt see or understand the actions for what they truly were. He broke up with me on my birthday at the end of the day, I was stunned he did it on that day. I just couldnt understand that, but now do, as it’s all due to self focus by them.
    
    Like you I was very hurt, didnt understand it, but now I feel really sorry for him, as I think it’s really sad. It will likely happen for them with the next person, it’s not you at all, and it’s hard to fix even if they acknowledge it or try to get help with it. I also do think it stems from childhood, so it’s very ingrained behaviour over many years now. He had a broken home situation, dont know the full details because he didnt talk too much about them!!
    
    So I guess all in all I had a lucky escape.
    
    Reply
missy 9 December 2009 at 1:21 am Permalink

Im at a point in my life now where i had a friend we hung out spend time have fun.And then one day he woke up and decide i dont exist and im a afterthrough.Its very painful and it sbeen bout 4 months now.My heart dont hurt anymore but i cant get out my head that he could be so cold.Bad thing im made him priority in my life,Now im bust no one to do anything with cost my world was all around his.But i know as time go on this too shall past.Its the principle make me feel i was never anything to him in first place,Men need to grow F*** up

Reply
- Sue 20 January 2010 at 11:31 am Permalink
  
  Hey Missy
  
  I know exactly how you feel. Funny he told me I need to grow up and I was the one trying to talk it out. Treating another like they dont exist, without letting them know it’s the no contact thing if its a break up situation, is just really poor and selfish on their part. They are the immature ones. I guess the important thing to remember is in good relations people know how to communicate, even if you are communicating a break up. There are still good ways to do that, and very bad ways too, i.e. the “disappearing man”. Better to know it now that in a few years time, as that is the same person still. It’s the treating you like you dont exist that is the killer to my emotions at the moment. And like you especially having investing, time, love, and trust to them; it’s like you get disrespect in return. Heartless and cruel way to treat another human who actually loves/loved them.
  
  #Sigh# How to get through it? Argh!
  
  Reply

elleke jenkins 5 December 2009 at 10:11 pm Permalink

One thing that helped me get over the pain of being ignored by family members was just realizing that there was no getting what I wanted which was to be acknowledged. Leaving the door open to conversation, being available for interaction or even just pretending that everything was okay was not going to alter the other’s behavior. As long as they believe they are controlling me, they are getting what they want. This kind of behavior is just practiced in order to control someone. I don’t think there is a cover-all answer to what one’s response should be. If one has done everything possible to sort out the situation (not groveling or asking for forgiveness, Hold them responsible for their own behavior) and nothing changes, leave you job (I know that isnt’ fair to you but if you are not there to bear the brunt of the behavior then you won’t be hurt anymore), get a divorce (even if the “love” is still there), ignore it (mother-in-law, etc) and just keep your own behavior and priorities above their standards. They will never get the point until they are hurt in a similar way and then they may still not understand. Their emotional investment in a relationship is not based on honesty, but control of the other person. They of course believe they are right to treat people this way. What they get out of their behavior may satisfy them but you owe yourself more respect than to enable them. Whatever manner it takes the answer is to “distance” yourself from the insanity. There is not getting through to them no matter how much you love them. You give them persmission to disrespect you if you grovel and beg.

Distance does not have to mean behaving the way they do; it can mean whatever it takes to “not buy into the behavior or play their game.” And IT IS SO HARD! But well worth the effort.

The distance needs to be committed to just as the relationship was committed to. If you have to speak to them make it polite but distant. Dont’ give them an opportunity if you can avoid it to put you in their game.

Do not engage in any substantive interchanges with the silent person, don’t share, don’t join them even if they are with your friends. Turn down (politely) invitations where this person will be present and make yourself emotionally unavailabe for any type of engagement with that person.

Yes, it hurts like hell to do all this, but your silent person does not need to know how hurt you are. Nurture your own soul. Lick your own wounds. Find an emotional outlet until you make peace with the separation from this person (and that peace does come!)

You cannot change them. You can be honest with them, but leave them without an opportunity to reply and start the silent treatment if you really believe your honesty is necessary for them. Don’t be vulnerable. They will love it if you are.

Reply

Tam 19 May 2010 at 1:59 pm Permalink

I really really liked this reply! I like the “keep your own priorities and behaviours above their standards” part. I have been in a r/ship for about 1.5yrs.

We dated 1mth, then he went silent for 4mths. I started dating someone else at 3.5 mths of him being away. He came back. I broke off the new r/ship and went back. It’s been a year since then. OMG! I never truly knew the silent treatment until him. When something goes wrong, real or imagined in his mind, I get the silent treatment. Sometimes for weeks, sometimes just 1 week, we’ve agreed that it has to be within 24hrs to work something out. Today – as I write, I am being given the silent treatment AGAIN.

What kills me is that just as soon as I find my happy place, and begin to keep on going, and focus on my life – it’s like a radar, he comes back, and pretends all is good. ARGH!!

So I think I am done, over it, but I am going to take your posting and copy it and put it up at my workplace when I think of texting him, or calling.

All of the posts on here make me feel so much better, I really like the original article too!

Reply
- Sue 20 May 2010 at 7:04 pm Permalink
  
  Hi Tam
  
  I’ve not been on here for awhile. But had a similar situation to yours but with longer time periods.
  
  There comes a point when this is immature and direspectful behaviour. Enough is enough. Be with a man who wants to be in a real relationship with you. Ones like this have personality issues, as they are unable to talk and treat you respectfully.
  
  Communication, respect and thoughtfulness to your feelings is important and vital to good relationships.
  
  Find a man who is ready to be committed and present in a real relationship and none of this silly game playing. It’s all about controlling and disrespect. Sadly it’s their character and so they are unlikely to change. This is a difficult path, especially when it’s not you who has the problem!
  
  Find another who wants to make you happy, you deserve better, and yes maintain your own good standards.
  
  I am still healing, it’s very traumatic to deal with such a person who you are so in love with and thought they were too, yet they can easily hurt you like this and not really care. They care only about themselves, until they feel a need in them to return. It will repeat though, and this yo-yo pattern is hurtful and really horrid to us, and it’s really bad, it’s not loving behaviour, it’s controlling and selfish behaviour.
  
  Find someone who really wants to commit and be with you, thats the path to happiness.
  
  Take care.
  
  Reply
  - Gina 6 June 2010 at 1:37 pm Permalink
    
    Hi all. I’ve been the recipient of the silent treatment now for just about a month. I’ve been dating someone for four years this month. He has some issues and I’ve always known this and accepted that. He’s needed space to work things out before. The time frame for silence in the past has varied from six hours to a week at one time. This month of silence is the longest. The reason? A coworker threw myself and another under the bus at work and while not great it’s something I can and have been handling like an adult. My guy wanted me to do all kinds of things to get revenge and while tempting that wasn’t going to happen. That behavior is not what I am about. So I was given an ultimatum. DO something, better yet quit, or he said for me to leave him be. He said to let him know when I did something. My job has no bearing on him or his life and while I was and am upset about what happened things are going along at work. I will move on from my job, but in my time and in my way. Yes I know, this is all childish and I should leave him be, but I’m not ready to be without him. I am close, but not yet. I have made no attempts to contact him and I was told by his best friend he changed his screen name so I can’t email him. I’ve not asked his friend one tning about my guy. I told you he was childish and you’d never guess this man is 51 years old. I am 50. This happens at all ages. I am hurt like crazy and I know he knows that, but he has this thing about being protective and controlling. I’ve always known this and no he’s never been violent. Emotionally abusive, obviously. Now I think it has become a power trip between us, but all I did was share with him what happened at work that day then after a couple weeks of him being angry at me for doing nothing he tries to bully me. I’m going to give him another week then send him a short letter snail-mail. I want my say. I could call him, but that’ to easy for him to hang up on me. If he responds in some way to the letter then I’ll go from there and if the silence continues I will have to move on without him. I’ve never given anyone the silent treatment and wouldn’t, it’s hell. How cruel. It’s not new to me though. I have family members who do not speak to one another, but it’s their business not mine. I’ve been miserable with this silence between us, but this too shall pass soon. I’m thrilled to have come across this site! Thanks for the ear and luck to us all!
    
    Reply
    - Sue P 12 June 2010 at 1:06 pm Permalink
      
      Hi Gina
      
      Sorry to hear about your situation. Im afraid they wont change and the silent treatment will be there. Sadly, its their character and how they control you.
      
      Find someone who is not immature, and who is ready to be in a real balanced loving relationship. Do it for yourself, you deserve to be treated well.
      
      All the best.

Mimi 6 December 2009 at 11:33 pm Permalink

Hello, I am happy I came across these posts and that others go through these things. Been very helpful. Lolana my heart goes out to you, you sound like such an amazing person who has gone above and beyond in all ways for your family. You can’t change others you can only change your self and your reactions to others behaviors.

I am married and basically happy except for these occasional silent treatments. My husband we can be having a nice conversation and I’ll say something that is nothing that apparently offends him and he won’t talk to me usually over night but this time it has been 4 days w/ no communication at all over absolutely nothing. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells some times and watch every word I say. He has his good points and is a decent man other than this issue and the fact that he seems to have anger issues. He did this a lot when we first met over 10 years ago but than not for a long time. More recently this issue has resurfaced. I have a lot of other things going on in my life which are keeping me very busy and I feel he is maybe jealous of my relationship with other family members and him not being the center of my world? Or does he not like me any more and that is why he has such a short fuse with me? I don’t know but i am getting tired of what feels like emotional abuse. We have a nice life together don’t have the issues that many couples do with children, money, health–our relationship should be a breeze and often times it is. Usually when these things happen, a day later he’ll call me up and make a joke or turn it around saying I really hold a grudge. Once he is “over it” In the past I have communicated how damaging I feel this is to our relationship, yet he continues to behave in this manner. He is much older than I and his parents were passed when I met him but from what I heard it seemed this is an issue in his family how the members relate to each other. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I am angry this is the holidays and I have so much happiness in other areas but this feels very hurtful. Thank you. Mimi

Reply

Annie 14 January 2010 at 2:57 pm Permalink

Hi,

Finally a website that I can relate too, I’ve been married now 16 years and continuously going through the silent treatment with my husband. At first it started 1 wk, 2 wks, 1mth, the longest was 5/6mths. By now I refuse to give in, in the past it was always me to start up the conversation or say I’m sorry, now Ive just given up and see how long it will last. I now have health issues and I’m sure they are all related to this silent treatment, depression, seasonal depression, body pain, over weight, should I go on??? If I don’t do or say what he feels appropriate it will trigger the silent treatment, for example smoking, swearing, if I slip wih one occossional bad word towards him, like the other day I said “your such an ass”, how many couples can say that and get away with it, well, not me, excuse me for being human and not being able to hold my tung once in awhile, so since that episode which was in the beginning of December he is not speaking to me. Not only is he not speaking to me but he acts likes he has his a single guy, he will leave the house without telling me where he is going or tell me just before he leaves the house that he has plans with friends for supper, basketball, etc… I would never do this as I know this is disrespectful. I’m the type of person who loves to laugh, joke, and just have fun, but with this type of guy that he is I feel he is bringing me down and I don’t know how to get out of it. I have 3 kids and that’s what keeps me going, but also that’s what keeps me tied to my husband, if there were no kids involved I would of left him a long time agao…

BTW… I don’t believe you can change someone like this, I know where this comes from and I see it from his Dad, his Dad is exactly the same way. I always tell my husband that I’m like your mom and I will not tolerate it, but listen to me, I’m still hear taking the abuse….

If there’s any advise out there please feel free to give..

Reply
- Venus 15 January 2010 at 2:08 pm Permalink
  
  Annie, sorry to hear you are going through this. That must be maddening for up to 5 and 6 months. What do your children say? It’s not surprising to me that you are suffering health problems at all. It can definitely take a toll on you both mentally and physically. I’m recently separated from my husband namely for the silent treatment reason (the longest was 1 1/2 – 2 months before I left) and I can tell you that I suffered so many migraines daily and lack of sleep and a “numb” feeling. My advice is to tell him you’re not going to put up with it and if he can’t handle that then maybe it’s best you guys look at some other options. Have you done marital counselling with him before? Suggest that to him. 16 years is a long time to deal with that. My husband now wants to go to marriage counselling, now that I’ve left him 3.5 months ago but I’m unsure he will ever change. He says he’ll stop ignoring me but I’m very wary. I hope you can heal yourself. It’s absolutely damaging living in the same house as someone, your spouse, ignore you day in and day out. I can relate 100% so I feel your pain.
  
  Reply
- Derrick 4 March 2010 at 5:08 pm Permalink
  
  Annie, there lies the problem… you insulted your husband. Whether you feel the right to do so or not, you did do so, and – depending on how often you do or have done it before – he is showing you he’s had enough of it.
  
  Reply
  - Dixie 29 August 2010 at 6:39 pm Permalink
    
    Derrick, seriously, she called her husband an ass, and it became such a big issue that he hasn’t spoken to her for 5-6 months? Maybe you deserve the Nobel for maximum insensitivity?
    
    Like so many couples here, my husband and I go through these phases – I will say or do something unwittingly and silent treatments will follow. In the past he has been physically violent too, from month 1 of our marriage through late stages of my second pregnancy. After the last incident right after my pregnancy, I told my mom about it and so the physical abuse stopped. But the silent treatments went on. When I told my mom (after 8 yrs of marriage/hiding the abuse) that he was often beating me black and blue, he gave me the silent treatment for apparently violating the sacred privacy we shared. Well, duh, the privacy was helping you do your assholery and you still got to maintain your image in the community as this amazing, helpful, churchgoing family man.
    
    After 1.5 years of relative peace (no physical violence, but silent treatments galore) we had a major fight last Wednesday. After an argument, HE bit my nose till it started bleeding profusely, kicked me till I got a hairline fracture in my hand, and yet has the balls to give me the silent treatment. Till last night, I tried to make him open up, asking him to come eat, hey lets talk, maybe we can watch a movie together etc.
    
    I’ve had enough. From this day on, I’m going to stop grovelling, trying to make conversation. I hate how desperate and needy I must seem to him. I’m going to see how long this lasts. I have an internal deadline for him. If he doesn’t come around by then or even make any simple overtures, then this marriage is over. His claustrophobic Catholicism not withstanding.
    
    Reply

Silent in Seattle 11 December 2009 at 11:35 pm Permalink

I have a co-worker whom I find toxic in the extreme. I have issues which her personality traits trigger. I have PTSD and am coming out of an abusive relationship. I’m also going through therapy to address childhood abuse (emotional/mental/physical) from my father. This co-worker is verbally abusive, disrespectful and passive aggressive. I ended our friendship when I finally took a stand to stop including abusive people and start including genuinely supportive people in my life. I find I am unable to interact with this person in any way that is healthy or that positively supports the transitional phase I’m currently moving through.

My solution? I told her I decided our friendship was not in my best interest and stopped interacting with her on a personal level. Work related items are excluded – we interact only when necessary.

I would love to be able to have a conversation with her about why I made my decision, why I find her behavior unacceptable and how we can both work to mend fences and be friends again. However, she has shown me time and time again that my feelings don’t matter to her. I know that anything I say will be brushed off or twisted around to suit her agenda. Why beat my head against a brick wall?

She knows something of my history, as I said, I told her why I didn’t want to be friends anymore. Has she made any attempt to talk to me about it? Nope. In fact, she continues to cross my boundaries by spreading rumors and gossip about me at work.

She never has been one to openly discuss issues in our friendship, last winter, after my mother died and I was in the midst of the abusive relationship I mentioned earlier, she gave me the cold shoulder. I took the bait and asked why, she said I was being self centered and abusive towards her. Did she take into consideration that I was dealing with the grief over the death of a parent? Did she ever try to understand what I was going through at home with the jerk I was with? No, she didn’t. She never even had the respect for our friendship enough to say “hey, I’m feeling like you’re not listening to me and that hurts my feelings”, she simply brushed me off then when I asked layed a ton of crap on me.

For me, the only solution is my silent protest against her bullying behavior, her passive aggression, her abusive and disrespectful treatment.

At least I find with every passing day that I care less and less. I realize that in fact I did not lose anything but gained more respect for myself by standing up to someone who treated me like crap.

Reply

Sue 12 December 2009 at 1:08 pm Permalink

Hi, That person is totally self centred they can only think of themselves. Therefore they will not consider you at all. I mean at all, i.e. not one teeny little bit. It is abusive behaviour, their problem.

Because you are considerate person you think normally. Dont expect them to, that is your mis-assumption. Focus on yourself, heal, etc, and yes silence is the best control for you here with such a person.

All the best.

Reply
Lolana 15 December 2009 at 3:10 am Permalink

This is terrible:

“She never has been one to openly discuss issues in our friendship, last winter, after my mother died and I was in the midst of the abusive relationship I mentioned earlier, she gave me the cold shoulder. I took the bait and asked why, she said I was being self centered and abusive towards her.”

That’s what so many of these types of people do, they blame you using words that describe their own actions.

Sue is right. There are cetain cretins who absolutely do not consider the feelings of other human beings, not at all, not one bit. I don’t know what these people tell themselves to justify their behavior, but whatever it is, they seem unbothered by the harm they do others.

You’re not giving a silent treatment in the negative way described by the other posters here. Seems like it’s a self-protective boundary you’ve drawn, and your former supposed friend doesn’t seem to like it much. But it doesn’t sound like you have a choice about it. As far as your co-workers, they’ll believe what they want to believe. Make sure you have a communicative relationship with your supervisor, though, or someone else in the company who knows the bs isn’t true. This person sounds capable of politicking you out of a job if you don’t protect yourself with some alliances.

Reply
Silent in Seattle 15 December 2009 at 3:35 am Permalink

Thank you both, so much. I appreciate the support. It’s easy for me to fall into the trap of “maybe it’s me” with abusive people.

I definitely hear you, Lolana, about politicking against me. Thankfully, her reputation for being tough to get along with is well known. I had a conversation with the owners last week and they said they were totally happy with me and my performance. So I feel pretty safe in that respect.

I figure the folks who are worth their salt will see how much she is bashing me while seeing how I’m not saying a peep about her and do the math. The folks who side with her without ever getting my side? So be it, not the kind of folks I want to be friends with anyhow.

It’s hard because I’m so unsure of myself right now and I don’t have a strong support network to validate my feelings and decisions.

If nothing else I will come out of this stronger than ever. I do believe that but man, am I tired of that mantra! I’m ready for new beginnings, for a new script!

Good luck to you both and again, thanks so much for the support!

Reply
Carlos 3 February 2010 at 3:55 pm Permalink

At this moment I’m trying to decide what to do with a co-worker too, I only answer when he ask me a question, I noticed that by now he knows something’s up, he’s also just very disrespectul, and one of those “know it all” so I can never have a real conversation with him, I’m just really bad at confronting somebody so I was thinking to just e-mail him, I really don’t know what to do, I read your story and I totally understand your situation, so any reply will be great, thank you very much.

Reply
- Gina 6 June 2010 at 1:58 pm Permalink
  
  Hi Carlos. My coworker threw me and another under the bus at work. We were great friends outside of work. The incident was minor and she admitted to me she told on us because she didn’t want to be yelled at, she’s a lead person where I work. Myself and the other person was written up then she told us it was no big deal. I told her of course it’s not a big deal to you you weren’t written up! I have stopped any and all personal interaction with her, I don’t trust her now. Things were very quiet at work, but I gladly spoke to her about work and that’s how it has remained. Not once has she apologized or made attempts to speak to me or the other coworker about what happened. I’m fine with the way things have gone at work and hope to leave this job in a year or so. I just watch my back now. In your case, by all means send an email, but only do so because you want to and to relieve the pressure you feel. It doesn’t sound as if you like this person which is fine and no need to pretend you do, but only talk/email for you not him. It doesn’t sound like he cares, but you could nicely tell him you feel he’s disrespectful and it makes the work environment unpleasant for all. If he cared he’d ask what was going on. My guess is though he’s not going to be accepting of being called out on his behavior, but that’s his problem. If he gts worse then take the issue to the powers that be. A poor emotional work environment makes for poor production regardless of the job. Good luck Carlos!
  
  Reply
in limbo 12 July 2010 at 3:00 am Permalink

You spoke about having to give silent treatment to a toxic coworker because she was being disrespectful and passive aggressive, among other things. I appreciate that you wrote, “I would love to be able to have a conversation with her about why I made my decision, why I find her behavior unacceptable and how we can both work to mend fences and be friends again.” But, in the end, it couldn’t work because she wouldn’t listen or refused to talk about it. There were rumors and gossip at work…and you felt she didn’t take into consideration all the grief and other issues you were struggling with. and in the end, you had to give her silent treatment and had more respect for yourself for doing so.

I can relate a lot to what you wrote. I went through a similar situation where there coworkers/friends participated in shunning both at work and off work. I felt like that toxic coworker you mentioned. I’ve come to learn that reality is a matter of perspective. They thought I was the cruel coworker/friend/neighbor, that I was harassing them and they had to get me out of their lives. From my perspective, I was being shunned, a couple against one, and it made both my personal and work life absolute hell.

I wished they had been as reasonable as you, offering an opportunity for us all to get together calmly and discuss our disagreements, clear the air, perhaps attempt to resolve gross misunderstandings. But, in retrospect, all of us were too hurt and too childish to do such a thing.

I went through a whole assortment of reactions. The one thing I was totally incapable of doing was being calm. I groveled, I waited, I begged to be taken back into the group essentially. At the time, I think I thought I was doing the right thing, just patiently waiting to be included again. But, as people have told me now, me continuing to wait to be included again is an act of desperation and insecurity, that likely made them hate me all the more. And, as you, I was also dealing with a lot of person problems at the time as well, including grief over family members I didn’t know how to acknowledge. I could have used more friendship during this time, but I had to face shunning too. At home, and at work, so I had no refuge.

But, I didn’t take it well. to say the least. I felt backed into a corner. and indescribably alone. I wanted to be included again. I desperately wanted to know exactly all the things I did wrong, as friend, coworker, and neighbor, so I could recognize them, work on them, and fix things. Maybe there was no one thing that made them shun me, maybe it was my entire personality. Maybe, too, it’s a reflection of them, not 100% me. As has been mentioned here, you guys say the shunners do this to feel they are in control. I also felt bad that I had inadvertantly put them in such a position that they felt they had to do this. Was I really so awful? I never wanted to hurt anybody.

But, ok, after wanting to belong and wondering what I did wrong and wanting to fix things. then I just wanted avoidance, from them, from everything. I could say they spread rumors about me and I didn’t say anything bad about them. But what’s more accurate is that we were both spreading rumors about each other, but we thought it was the truth. They thought I was harassing them and vice versa. But, here again, is the two-faced nature of the silent treatment. Because, technically, they are not doing or saying anything. I think that adds to the shunners’ beliefs that they are right and I am wrong because they haven’t “done” anything.

This, too, hurt. I would rather have everything out in the open. I would rather my accusers come tell me to my face. If we can’t be civil, I’d still prefer a screaming match or a physical fight to the silent treatment. To me, it’s a decent and honest thing to tell someone off to their face. and if you get in a physical fight, at least it’s known that both are participating in the fight. But with silent treatment, the ones not speaking can think they haven’t done anything. Do they know what it’s like to have people not acknowledge your existence, both casually and actively? Do they know what it’s like to be shunned for a year? Or the effects shunning has on a person? I think the point is that they don’t care. And it’ll only bother me to ruminate about it.

I eventually got out of the situation. Not by resolution, but by physical distance. I’m still bothered that there wasn’t a resolution and never will be. I think, they could’ve just told me they no longer wanted me around, was the shunning, especially at work, necessary? And I still don’t wish them any ill will. I don’t want them to be shunned in return. They were once my friends, who I cared for, and so I only want them to be ok.

It’s just, the shock to my system of all of that misery, and what it says about me as a person, is truly something that’s hard to deal with. I can’t just dismiss what happened and go think I’m such a great person and they’re all assholes. I don’t think people can be that hated for no reason. But I’m also not allowed the chance to make amends, for my part.

Reply

Lolana 15 December 2009 at 6:31 am Permalink

Maybe you all can give me some feedback here. My family (blood relations, birth family) don’t talk to me. That includes my sister who is three years younger than I, who has four kids now.

I adore and miss my nephew, the oldest of the kids, and think often of my neice, who is younger and who I don’t know as well, but with whom I exchanged cards, letters and gifts for some years, as well as visiting. The two younger kids I know not at all.

Last year when it was apparent to me that I would not be able to see the kids, having fallen out with the Fam, I wrote to my nephew and neice. I sent them little things like a box of feathers from my birds (beautiful birds their feathers are very pretty and colorful) and pieces of artwork, random thoughts and cool stuff. All kid-oriented, nothing weird (unless sending feathers is weird, but these are kids, remember, and I thought that would be cool since they liked my birds).

I sent off a couple of packages to my nephew and neice and in the one to my neice, I responded to a letter she had sent in which she said she missed me and wished she could visit me.

Inside my package, I tucked a separate package for my sister with whom I do not speak. In a note, I told her I didn’t think it was fair to ignore my neice’s question about coming to see me. I told her I had written a note to my neice addressing this topic, and she could either read it and interpret in her own words, or she could give it to my neice, either way. This letter and the letter to my neice were enclosed in a package clearly marked with my sister’s (her mom’s) name.

In the letter, I told my neice that I might not see her for a while, because I have had a disagreement with her Mom and the rest of the family. I told her she was welcome to visit me anytime with permission from her Mom and Dad. And I told her not to worry, that everything was fine with me, and not to think that I am not coming because I don’t like her or anything. And that was pretty much it. I wanted to say *something* because I think it’s really unfair to keep kids in the dark, and especially unfair to act as if you have not heard a child when she says she misses you and wants to see you. I put the package to my sister in with the larger package and sent it off.

And that was the last I heard of any of them.

The family that I came from is not big on including kids in important discussions. They are great at pretending important issues don’t exist, such as my sister and I being born to a different mother, and this being kept a secret (and a shameful one) for years from my younger half siblings. So I’m sure they found a way to turn my note into something bad.

Here it is Christmas and I do think of them. I confess I do not think much of the two littler ones, since I do not know them. I wonder sometimes if I should send something through the mail for the holidays. Would they give the kids what I sent, if I sent something? Do they allow discussion of me? Do they sweep it under the rug? My poor nephew was the only kid on the block willing to say the emporer had no clothes on, and I wonder if he is even aware of why I cannot come see them. We always had a really good time. If they say bad things about me, does he believe them? Knowing my stepmom, she won’t say anything that sounds bad on its face, but she’s the queen of the subtle, underhanded insult.

Anyway, the overall effect of the family’s silent treatment towards me has made me not want anything to do with those adults at all. Every time I make some gesture toward any of them, their silence and ignoring sends me into a depression the likes of which I cannot describe. It is not so bad because I have my finace, my friends, my job and my life, 3000 miles away—-(there’s a reason I moved so far away, too). But these specific people have the power and know exactly what to do to sentence me to the stockade, in their minds. As far as they are concerned, I guess I may as well be dead.
(Sorry to be so cheery ;D)

On the holidays, and on their birthdays, I think of my nephew and neice. I wonder what I could do. I think about sending gifts of music. I think about sending advent calendars which I used to do. I think about sending money. I think about sending checks, which are always handy because you can at least tell if they were cashed (and what kid doesn’t love money on the holiday?!! it was always my personal favorite!!) Then I think to myself, how pathetic it is, to think of sending a check, then waiting waiting to see if it gets canceled. That would be the only response I would get back, I am sure.

I have put my name loud and clear all over the internet, because my nephew is definitely of an age to Google, and I want to be there if he ever wants to find me. But I also believe these people are fiendishly clever in making kids think or feel a certain way about people. My dad and stepmom were very powerful in shaping our thoughts toward people we had once loved, who they no longer wanted to associate much with (his family, my Mom’s family). It didn’t take much. We believed them about what yucky people some of those people were. And we missed knowing our own family because of it. My stepmom was able to convince my Dad, I think, to not associate overmuch with his very own family, except to judge them. And we kids went along with it.

If I cannot handle anything, I cannot handle my nephew and neice believing whatever lies are told about me. I’m an aunt anyone would be thrilled to have, and I had great times with my nephew (was closest to him). What must they think?

But I fear it is too toxic an act for me to even try to send greetings or gifts this time of year. Not for the kids—I wish I had the strength of spirit to do it, without needing anything in return.

But the commitment I made to myself some years ago was to only give when I knew there would be something coming back. I think, “I should send them little messages from beyond, so they know someone is thinking about them…and maybe…maybe one day..maybe one day they will learn I actually am a cool aunt and not a weird one. (hey, my friends think I’m cool and that’s enough for me.)

I wish I were able to do this, without the following heartbreak of hearing nothing back, nothing week after week month after month year after year. With regard to the family, I absolutely cannot give anymore. Nothing comes back.

And yet I remember how lonely I was growing up with their crazy sensibilities, feeling so lonely because the things I thought mattered were not the same things they thought mattered. Thinking I was crazy, thinking none of my relatives even gave a #@^%& what happened to me and my sister, our home was abusive and terrible and we lived in terror. And no one noticed or reached out, the adults kept wondering people far at bay. And I think to myself, what if I’m being selfish for not reaching out to them?

And then I think, if they don’t reach out to me, I simply cannot. Can Not. Cannot go there, because it hurts too much. The last thing that happened was the shootout at Ft. Hood, in Texas, where my brother was based. Remember the shootout? So of course I called his cell phone and left a message, then hours later hearing nothing, left another message saying please just let me know you’re OK, we don’t have to have a conversation, but please call me.

He never did call. I emailed my Dad (didn’t know what else to do) and he let me know he was fine.

I also tried to explain to my brother why I can no longer get any oxygen with the family, in the letters and packages I sent when he was deployed overseas. No comment or anything—he actually did not even thank me. I didn’t send the packages to “get” something back—but some acknowledgement might have been nice.

So as of the day of the shooting, I am done with my brother as well—-I cannot deal with any of them for my own mental health.

But as to the kids, I am tempted. I am tempted because I remember how it is to be a kid, when adults don’t talk sense or treat you fairly. I’m tempted because for all I know my nephew asks about me all the time. (but doesn’t Google search, apparently)

Is this selfish? To just draw the line and say no more not even for those two kids? Will they grow up thinking I don’t care about them?

But I just feel I can’t. The letdown is too predictable. For so many years now my gestures at communication have been rebuffed and ignored and each time it hurts more. I want no more hurt in my life.

I would love some thoughts ya’ll.

Reply

SK 5 August 2010 at 2:47 pm Permalink

Hi Lolana,

I think your honesty is wonderful and your “family” is terrible. Like mine. Right now I’m undergoing the “silent treatment” from my uncle because I didn’t give him a piece of my Mom’s jewelry (she’s deceased) for his current girlfriend! I’m his niece (the correct spelling is “niece,” btw), but have always been ignored by him, basically since birth – my only uncle. This event happened last Christmas, and he hasn’t spoken to me the entire year. Yep – he’s a “dick,” as the article here says. He’s also a cheapskate, which is why he asked me for the “freebie” jewelry, even though he’s a lawyer and earns a lot of money. I mentioned my mother – she was a huge user of Sadistic Silent Treatment, and let everyone know by her crummy emotional treatment of me that it was “OK” to treat me like crap. Lately my younger brother – 11 years younger – is following his mentor our uncle and giving me the treatment – you wouldn’t believe, or probably you would, the mean and vicious e-mails he’s sent me last month, which included incredibly painful stuff going back many years involving our mother. I was shocked by his cruelty. I told him to stop e-mailing me as his messages were rotten and vicious and filled with personal stuff. Instead, that we could talk over the ‘phone, privately, but he refuses to do that as that would involve verbal communication, and Mom taught him well that nope we can’t be having that! My mother was a master non-communicator. Her favorite line: “I don’t want to talk about it.” Or. “I have a headache,” which meant that all adult verbal communication stopped immediately by HER “control.” She had to “control” every situation with her excuses for shutting me out of any useful verbal exchange.

A person here commented that the deliberate ignoring of her by family members was giving her “health issues.” Well, I feel the same way. In a note to my brother which I wrote for myself, I said “You two (uncle and brother) are about to give me a heart attack with your cruel silent treatments’ of me. You should be ashamed of yourselves.”

An important note: My brother, who came along almost 11 years after me, was Mom’s “little Prince.” He developed an illness at age 12, and after that the little sh*t became “untouchable,” and I, who had normal health, became the human receptacle everyone could abuse, permission granted by Mom. My brother became accustomed to being treated as untouchable, no matter what he did, while everything I did was wrong, imperfect, not satisfactory – I became the scapegoat of the family. Even when I earned a Master’s degree, NOBODY said anything! And you know what? I wasn’t even surprised, I’m so used to being treated like nothing by my family.

Being mistreated for the last 30 years by my family has affected my life terribly. I didn’t have kids and I’m glad – the sadistic silent treatment “genes” that figure so prominently in my family (Mom, uncle, brother) can all die and good riddance. Oh – my brother didn’t have kids, either. Or even get married.

I suppose my sick and twisted “uncle” plans on never speaking to me again over the incident described above. Presently my brother – my younger brother – is trying to exert “control” and “dominance” over me by deciding unilaterally the time period until he speaks to me again! The sickness is just unbelievable. He lives in Mom’s old house completely surrounded by her things! It’s like a frickin’ time warp, and pretty sad for a 42-year-old man. Who is actually a boy as Mom infantalized him since the age of 12. That little turd has no idea the amount of suffering I’ve gone through in my life, and now he’s mistreating me in the same way Mom did, and acting all “superior” and “haughty” and “holier-than-thou” and “condescending” as he’s doing it! The reason I’m “shocked” by this recent cruel and despicable behavior of his is that for many years we’ve had a nice relationship, esp after Mom passed 5 years ago. Now I realize he always had this hate for me, dormant inside and just waiting to wake-up. He probably misses the days when Mom would put me down – purposely – in front of other people. The embarrassment/humiliation was immense. I learned in my later adult life not to be around her with other people as I was sure to be insulted, and there was nothing I could do about it.

Wow – it’s been therapeutic to write all this. I hope I’ve helped some other people as I’ve helped myself.

Reply

Sue 15 December 2009 at 10:12 am Permalink

Hi Lolana,

This is a long answer but hope it helps:

I now believe these behaviours are due to two things at least, (i) the way they have grown up and not learnt to deal with communicating effectively to resolve and work through issues, and (ii) just a selfish personality (i. genetics!)

The reason you are getting hurt is because you care, and you are un-selfish. What you really need to do now is look after you, firstly. You have fun, you take care of yourself, you life your life and be happy, you control that, you control you and how you react to these people. They have no power over you now as you are miles away, unless you allow them to, so make a decision not to.

I too 1.5 weeks ago sent my ex’s young kids some presents that I had already got for them, that I was hoping to give them when I first met them, as I had so much love for them. I never did meet them and it is heartbreaking for me. I decided I still wanted the kids to have the presents. It was just little things, I’d not send anything of huge value. I know the parcel was received as it was signed for delivery, but not even a word of thanks, that hurts, that is so rude, again that silence hurts.

Again I ask myself how people can do that, is it the silent treatment still? Not even the politeness of a thank you? What type of people do that, it’s so mean, and at Christmastime, feels so heartless, maybe because it is?

It’s a hard thing to know in your situation I suggest not sending the kids anything, as the parents may not pass it on, or even pass it off as their own. You will have to totally back off, it’s sad, but only when the kids are old enough can they try to get in touch of you. I’m sure they will. In the meantime you live a happy life focus on yourself.

Dont send anything, because you wont receive any thanks for it, not a word, and it will hurt believe me. I find it hard to understand that behaviour, but that is because we are considerate. If you are of a selfish nature, put yourself in their shoes for a moment (the parents), what would you do? You do nothing because you are selfish and that is what is easiest and best for you (i.e. them). They have no care for your feelings clearly, only theirs.

You take back control, and heal yourself, do stuff in your control only, and make yourself happy, do things for you, stuff you like doing, only whats in your control. You will not disappoint yourself, but when you give control to others, they can disappoint you, so dont do it. Dont expect anything from those other people.

Here’s a suggestion, maybe that money you have for presents for those kids, put it aside in a savings account in your name but with them in mind for each of them. Open a new one with just that money in it, and watch it build up over time, something lovely and postive. Then add to it any time you feel the need for the value of another present. Or each time you think or miss those kids, go put another $1-5 in the account, and watch it build into something strong and good, you are in control of it. Then in the future, when they do get in touch and you can control the situation, draw it out and tell them it’s for them and what you have done. They will love you for it and see the situation for what it is. Also it may then come at a time as a young adult when they could really do with that money or put it towards a present they can tell you what they need/want. That way you also have control. I strongly suggest you dont send presents now, give the presents or money only when you are physically able to give it yourself and you know 100% it gets to the right person.

Can I suggest also, you sound like you are hurting hugely from your past and these people, it is a toxic relationship. It may be useful for you to see a counsellor for one set of sessions, to get it all out of your system, and also write it all out like a book. Purely to stop it going around in your head in circles. You need to heal this from your past. Make a decision to do so, then almost like putting it all in a box in the back of your mind, deal with it, resolve, and move forward, dont let it spoil your future.

I wrote out my stuff and it really helps, its no longer controlling my head, and when I feel myself thinking about it, I look at the lists of their negative behaviours and gives me a reality check, so I dont remember just the good but the bad things too.

Surround yourself with successful, positive, happy people, they are who will add to your life. These people are clearly not.

What I have come to realise the hard way, is no matter how much you try to reason with a person they will do as they please. I have to say selfish people I realise now are the worst, it’s the worst quality. All it does is drain you like a leech, sucks at your blood/your lifeforce, does nothing for you, only takes, and just needs to be disconnected from your body.

Where does selfishness comes from? I think all these things come from a persons childhood, and their own issues. Maybe their parents didnt set a good example and that’s all they know. But once that behaviour has set in to say an adult of 40 yrs, its very hard to change, you cant change them, they have to change themselves.

I personally am toying with idea of asking my ex if he did want to be friends as he had said or whether it was a lie from him, and I will receive the silent treatment forever? That way I force the situation and have my answer if I get ignored again too.

Make a resolution to be free of this trauma from 2010 say. Get happy positive loving you first, and those who are immediately around you adding to your life positively value those people. But be self-reliant, treat yourself, do stuff that makes you happy and you enjoy.

All the best.

Reply

Lolana 30 December 2009 at 7:25 am Permalink

Hey, thanks very much. Your advice is all great and it’s what I’ve been doing anyway for a number of years now. I feel better having detached myself from the toxic rituals that involve people who see me as someone not worth acknowledging or taking seriously. There are enough people who do take me seriously, and that’s the world I live in. The last thing I need is for my words and acts to be interpreted in false ways to kids who do not know better.

That said, I do think of them and miss them and can’t help wondering at Christmas time. It’s a shame that there was no acknowledgement for the kind gesture toward your ex’s kids.

“Be happy” is the best advice, I’m convinced of it. Life is too short to spend being frustrated. So the bottom line is just getting away from people who make you frustrated or who do not hear you. It takes some learning though, because there’s always a voice in my head giving me the wrong advice. “Just this once!” I think of it like an emotional credit card. There are relationships I simply can’t afford, emotionally, because they will leave me high and dry. Being around the people who like me is the best kind of healing I have found. thanks again.

Reply
- Venus 30 December 2009 at 2:23 pm Permalink
  
  I love your idea about the “emotional credit card.” It truly is the greatest thing being around people who actually enjoy you and show that they do, instead of turning their backs on you and ignoring you! I just wanted to update from my earlier post regarding my husband. It’s been 3 months now since I moved out and only the other day did he tell me that he realizes he said and did a lot of nasty things (didn’t apologize but acknowledged). When I brought up him ignoring me said that he would never do that if I didn’t make him. What the heck? That he always had reason for ignoring me. I’m sorry but to ignore someone every two months for a week or two or more and lastly, a month and a half, is NOT okay or normal. He invited me to go away with him a weekend but I am dropping the cord, so to speak. I’m not sure where this leaves us. I don’t think he yet sees how much this affected me. I think I will be in therapy for a very long time because of it and unable to trust anyone again. He broke my spirit, not my heart (or maybe my heart a little) by doing this and it’s like he will never understand how ridiculously harmful this was to me. I’m not even sure if I want to reconcile and am not sure about anything anymore. Do I move on with my ilfe or do I try to work it out? That has been the question for the last 10 months now in my life. He needs counselling but refuses to go. He still won’t go to marriage counselling because he says it’s for people who can’t handle their own problems. Advice?
  
  To those of you who’s family members do this to you, my heart truly aches for you and I keep you in my thoughts. That has got to be so incredibly grueling. Just think above it and don’t let it get in your head.
  
  Reply
  - Lolana 31 December 2009 at 5:31 am Permalink
    
    “When I brought up him ignoring me said that he would never do that if I didn’t make him. What the heck? That he always had reason for ignoring me.”
    
    OK, he doesn’t get it. Good grief!
    
    If I do hear from my family members at some point, I expect it would be the same. They could throw me a little bone of seeming-to-understand, and if I jump at it, they will reel me in again—which I can’t do. When someone’s taken a ginsu knife and sliced and diced my insides, a band-aid is not the answer. They would need to really understand. Apology would need to be not words, but deeds.
    
    I love the notion that people who go to therapists are the ones who can’t fix their own problems. Here’s another metaphor (I actually convinced an ex to go to therapy with this one) I wouldn’t try to fix my own car….I don’t know from cars. I’d take it to someone educated about cars. Same thing with the mind. People spend years studying, going to school, observing human nature…some therapists are good.
    
    It’s true though, that if you get a bad therapist, he/she can make things worse with bad advice, or their own dysfunction working itself out on you. But overall, therapy’s been crucial for me—I have a wise woman who knows me, knows I’m not crazy, believes me, and while she doesn’t give advice per se, her feedback is a real centering force in my life.
    
    But it’s hard to decide something like you’re going through, it’s like, OK, he sees how awful he’s been, but does he really? My boyfriends were like this for years and it took a really bad one for me to put an end to it. I have a great partner now and we’ve been together for going on 8 years and he would never, ever do the things my other boyfriends did, or that my family does. We have trust, and it’s a whole different kind of relationship.
    
    I don’t know if your guy could actually be there for you in the way you need him to be, but he doesn’t seem very convincing so far. It’s really important to me that people be able to respect my point of view without saying I’m crazy or that I deserve crappy treatment. People who believe those things do not belong in my universe anymore. And I’m much happier. good luck…
    
    Reply
    - Venus 31 December 2009 at 2:25 pm Permalink
      
      You said: “When someone’s taken a ginsu knife and sliced and diced my insides, a band-aid is not the answer.”
      
      If that isn’ thte perfect description, I don’t know what is!!! Sorry to hear about your family but you know what, anything negative needs to be pushed out of your life. It seems you have found peace and solace in your life without them trying to sabotage you.

Angel 17 December 2009 at 12:36 am Permalink

my daughter in law uses this to get her way. I think she has jealousy issues. My son and I had a rocky relationship due to his Dad’s death. now they are both calling me racist. which I am not. it is very painful and no end in site. She has control over my relationship with my son now, which is pretty much gone. very selfish

Reply

Ann 21 December 2009 at 7:27 am Permalink

I have been receiving a silent treatment for the last two weeks, I have been in a relationship with this man for the last four years, it has been great, until now. Out of the blue back in October he said he was “sick of my jealousy rages”…I am not jealous to begin with, never asked him about other people he has been with in the past, on the contrary, he told me about his ex wife’s jealousy fits, his ex girlfriend, the one that chased him around because she wanted to marry him, even if he had said no several times. He has a daughter I love, she is the sweetest kid, I love playing with her, teach her things, and do fun things with her, since his relationship with the mother is not a good one, and we know she puts the kid against him when she has the chance, I buy her things she can play with him, bonding things, like planting seeds, painting together, I buy the things and give it to him, not the child, I think I have been good to both of them, I love them both. Now it turns out I am his worse nightmare, according to him I am jealous, and chase him around, a while later he said I want to take his kid away from him, a minute later, he says I am trying to separate them, and the latest, he says I do not respect him and he has been giving me the silent treatment for the last two weeks…He has done it before and I have told him I don’t like it, I think it is immature and manipulative, I told him I was not putting up with another silent treatment…still he did it. I am not making the same mistake I made last time he gave me the silent treatment, I am not calling him, if he doesn’t want to talk to me and blame me for whatever is wrong in his life, let it be. I feel awful, I am confused, sad, angry, and worthless…I KNOW I didn’t do what he says I did, but I can’t help feeling awful and very sad.
I also know he has a job because I helped him out to get it, I know I always did the best I could with his daughter, always supported him though all his depressions and indecisive periods, periods in which he doesn’t know if he wants to work or do something else, say yes or no to a work proposition, or when he kept saying he didn’t want a room for his daughter in his house, “because she won’t be here long enough to enjoy it”. I told him his daughter deserves a place in his house and his life, I decorated the room for her in little mermaid theme, made her a dollhouse from scratch, and bought her sheets and a little mermaid comforter for her bed, her room is a little girl’s dream, but in his eyes, I am trying to separate him from his daughter!! How did I do that? All along I thought I was helping him develop a relationship with her!! Many times I would go home and let them be together, but all he does with her is watch tv, boy’s movies, he hates going out, he doens’t like driving, he thinks the amusement park is boring, the times she has asked me to take her places, I can’t because he won’t let me take her with me, and he doesn’t want to go, if I insist, he gets mad at me, and tells the child he can’t go “because I am sick and I am not feeling well”…I know he is not sick!! He wants to go home and watch tv!
There must be something very wrong in his head, all the times he has given me the silent treatment is because of his daughter, or at least that is the excuse he uses, “you are trying to take my daughter away from me, you want me to look bad infront of her”, I swear to God I don’t, but I can’t help it if the child has a mind of her own! She says things like “daddy is lazy” ” daddy is always sick”, “daddy sleeps too much”, I can’t help it if the child can see what he does, I cannot keep the child’s mother from telling her things against him! This is his own doing, it is not my fault, yet he blames me for everything!!!

Reply

Rhonda 30 December 2009 at 5:44 am Permalink

My sister and mother have given my other sister the silent treatment for 15 years.
The same sister who is inflicting the silent treatment is also giving me the silent treatment for almost 5 months and gives it to my third sister about 20 years.
Currently, my mother is giving me the silent tratment but she is turning it around and saying I am giving it. I do not understand why my father ignores this. My mother wrote my child a nasty e-mail blaming me for everything. What did my child do to deserve this? I am at wits end because I called my mother on the e-mail she now is not talking to my daughter………..Do I just leave and say no more? One more note my mother and sister are always together (the two who give the silent tratment) .

Reply

Lolana 30 December 2009 at 7:14 am Permalink

“Currently, my mother is giving me the silent tratment but she is turning it around and saying I am giving it.”

Yeah….I’m sure that’s what my family says too. I know exactly how you feel. They always found a way to make it my fault. Sounds like it is similar for you. You know I’m actually an awful lot happier now that I don’t have people blaming me and making things my fault which aren’t.

Hope all of you are having a good holiday season.

Reply

Debbie 30 December 2009 at 2:42 pm Permalink

Hey Venus,

Read this: http://tearsandhealing.com/sociopath3.htm?utm_source=YSM&utm_campaign=T%26H&utm_term=sociopath&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=NotCrz-LrnDis-StopAb

Do NOT go back. Really. About a week after my 23rd anniversary, I realized that it was not all my fault. I went to therapy. I read books. Although not a practicing Mormon anymore, the lessons I learned about turning the other cheek, being forgiving, and treating others as I wanted to be treated were permanently ingrained in me … and you know what? It just does not work with a sociopath. They’re not wired like other people.

My therapist said that I was one of the hardest working people she’d ever met. I read everything I could get my hands on about co-dependent traits (anyone that sticks with a sociopath is a co-dependent … healthy people would NEVER tolerate such abuse) and every other dysfunctional behavior I could find. I journaled. I exercised like a mad woman to help me release the repressed emotions.

Guess what? It’s been nearly three years since I came out of denial. I am amazed at how good I feel. I still have to deal with husband regularly because we have sons together but the little hairs no longer stand up on the back of my neck. I can’t see me having another relationship for some time as (1) I am not ready and (2) our divorce is not final. But, the good news is, I have changed so tremendously that I am confident that I will be repulsed by another sociopath. I no longer have fear … I no longer worry about things out of my control … basically, I am no longer a co-dependent.

You can heal from this. In fact, you can reach a point where you look back and see all the valuable life lessons you learned from the experience. You may not be thankful for the pain and confusion, per se, but you won’t regret it. It will truly be part of the fabric of who you are, and when you like, love and respect yourself, does it matter how you got there?

I have no regrets. It took me a long time to get here, but I am here now, so how long it took me is irrelevant.

Best wishes to you … to all of us that have come here for information, comfort, validation … Happy New Year.

Reply

Venus 30 December 2009 at 5:49 pm Permalink

Debbie, thanks for writing back. I’m glad you found some peace in your life and you seem to be really happy by removing yourself from that situation. That is wonderful!
I know that my M as-is isn’t healthy. I also know that I have contributed to our problems as well. I also know that I would never say the things he does to anyone and/or give someone the silent treatment habitually. So my thinking is, what is wrong with me? For staying all this time before I left? Granted, it didn’t happen overnight, but it makes me feel like there is osmething wrong with me. I’ve never experienced this treatment in any other relationship in my life before. It’s new to me. Again, how do you know you won’t end up in this place again? It’s a very scary thought.
If my husband is saying he knows he said some awful things and acknowledges it, does that mean he’s changing? How do I know that I can trust him again?
I myself am not perfect but I really go back and forth with this all day long in my head. It’s incredibly annoying.
Thanks for the link. I will check that book out.

Reply
- Lolana 31 December 2009 at 5:49 am Permalink
  
  Venus, you may have reached the point of no return by now–that point beyond which you’ve just had a total bellyfull of the meanness that an abusive person can dish out. Those very people are fond of telling you that *you* are the abusive one, and that they are merely responding to your baloney.
  
  Ask yourself if the relationship seems to be about honesty, or about control. A poster above pointed out the difference between the two kinds of relationships. Patricia Evans in her books on verbal abuse, describes two types of power; power “over” others, and power “with” others.
  
  People who need to control situations are in a different universe, she says, because they are not seeing the relationship as a source of collaborative strength, but in terms of one-up one-down. They’re more concerned with keeping score than they are with actual communication.
  
  Acknoweledgement isn’t enough, not for me anyway. Not unless it’s reflected in both word and deed. Apology is something very different. And a real apology comes from a person who is willing to give you one half the power in the entire relationship. If he’s offering a partnership, you’ll feel it. If he’s only going to reel you back in to get himself back to a relational comfort zone, you’ll feel that too. Trust your gut.
  
  I’ve gone back and forth in my head over this so much. Doubts in one’s head are great ammunition for abusive types. They want to say what the reality is, and be able to define it exclusively. But in a relationship, your reality is just as important as his. And if there’s no room in your reality to be with someone who makes you feel as if you’re stupid, too awful to acknowledge, at fault, or deficient in any way and not deserving of respect 24/7—then you’ll just know it.
  
  Trusting your feelings is important, because abusers want you to believe your feelings are *wrong.* Which is not true. Feelings are value-neutral. And we rely on them, from an evolutionary standpoint, to show us the way to make our world safe and healthy and strong.
  
  Reply
  - Venus 31 December 2009 at 2:33 pm Permalink
    
    Everything you said is on the money. My gut says, No. It’s wrong. It feels wrong. And they say “if it’s not a definite yes then it’s a no.” I think I already know the answer. It’s just taking that step. It’s a control and contention thing with him. Because why else would you ignore someone like that? He actually told me (and I had to keep from laughing out loud) that he ignores me because he cares about me. What kind of twisted logic is that? And now he’s being so sweet to me, “normal” again. It’s like being stuck in a blender. You never know what drink is going to come out of it.
    
    Ladies, for any of you involved with these idiots, GET OUT at the first indication of something amiss. Seriously. It’s not worth your sanity and peace of mind.
    
    Reply
    - Sue 18 January 2010 at 12:58 pm Permalink
      
      Hi Venus, I had to reply to your comments:
      “What kind of twisted logic is that? And now he’s being so sweet to me, “normal” again. It’s like being stuck in a blender. You never know what drink is going to come out of it.”
      - that made me giggle. It’s so true, “twisted logic” is what its all about, plus the blender effect!
      - I honestly think sometimes they just dont mean harm, or realise it though, its the “twisted logic” that makes them do it sometimes, but it’s something in them their nature, and so is very hard to change. I dont think it can change, but only they can do it. This type of thing in a persons character I believe is extremely hard to cure.
      - remember to laugh, not cry, it will make you stronger.

Debbie 31 December 2009 at 4:39 am Permalink

Hi Venus,

Of course, we all contributed to the problem. First of all, we’re all imperfect. Second of all, as I said before, a healthy person would never tolerate sociopathic behavior. It’s not a matter of just leaving this relationship and finding a nice person. You have to change. Sociopaths can only have relationships with doormats.

I don’t know about you, but the odd thing with me is that I am not a doormat anywhere else. It was only in my marriage. That was part of my contribution. I had to maintain the facade to the outside world to stay somewhat comfortable in my denial. I realized, while journaling this morning, my sanest times were probably when I was in my deepest depressions! When I was la la happy, I was la la lying … to myself and everyone around me. Well, lying by omission. I did not lie so much as tell incomplete truths. Had I been 100 % honest, I would have been forced to see reality.

That’s what their brain games do to us: screw up our minds. We’re like lab mice afraid to approach the food because the random shocks are going to fry us. No matter what patterns we do, to avoid the pain, the torture is arbitrary. We can’t even run out the wide-open door because, after awhile, we are so afraid to move. When we finally get to the food without being shocked, we think, “Oh, good. I’ll just keep doing this and everything will be okay.”

Wrong.

Get out. Stay alone. Heal yourself. You will never find peace, you must create it.

How do I know I won’t end up in a situation like this again? I am a very, very different person now. I am no longer so empathetic that I don’t recognize my own feelings. I am no longer afraid. I used to be afraid to sleep alone if he was away on business; now I live alone and sleep like a baby. I remember seeing the movie “Sleeping With The Enemy” and feeling like I was going to vomit because I knew exactly what Julia Roberts character felt like. I am not saying that I have a force field and other sociopaths won’t try, but that I am intune to MY feelings now, and MY radar gives me unapologetic messages. I treat everyone with respect because I have integrity, but I do not respect everyone. Respect is not earned; it is traded. Sociopaths respect NO ONE, not even themselves. You cannot trade respect with them.

Get out of this relationship. Stay alone. Heal yourself. Get to know yourself. You will be amazed at the old parts of you that resurface and the new parts of you that sprout as a result of this life experience.

You have all the answers you’ll ever need inside, but you cannot be distracted by another relationship right now. Get out. Stay alone. Heal.

Create your peace.

Reply

Venus 31 December 2009 at 2:23 pm Permalink

Thanks for writing back. I, like you, am not a doormat in any other relationship, the way I feel in this one. In fact, of the men I dated prior to my hub, nobody ever treated me like he has. Not a single one. So I think, wth happened in this situation? So I see that as a positive, never having been with someone who acts this way. Right now I still feel confused but that’s the name of the silent treatment game, isn’t it? I need a lot of time alone, I believe. Anyone who’s been treated this way does. Debbie, do you have children with him?

Reply

Debbie 31 December 2009 at 2:56 pm Permalink

Hi Venus,

Yes. We have two sons. They’re young adults, in college, living away from home.

That’s part of the insidiousness of the whole wretched relatonship with a sociopath. Because of the nature of his career, I merely worked two or three part-time jobs, at any given time, while rearing our children and running our house. No well-paying career for me. No pension. But I was very involved in the volunteer organizations one participates in when she has children. I held executive positions, chaired umpteen committees. NO ONE would ever guess what was going on behind closed doors. My closest friends knew when I was falling apart because I was on the receiving end of hostile silence for three, four, five months at a time. I was a basket case. My sons saw their mother just sob and sob and sob. We all tiptoed on eggshells around him. He would talk to our sons but they saw what he was doing to me. It was sick … very, very sick. Thank Gawd my sons’ girlfriends have told me that my boys talk too much … they share their feelings, they cuddle, they do things they don’t really want to do just because they want to spend time with them (the girlfriends). I did make a positive impact, inspite of my former doormat ways. My sons SHARE in their relationships.

For me, part of the problem was I took basic Christian values and misinterpreted them. Forgive does not mean to allow someone to continue to abuse you. It means to process and release the emotions. Turn the other cheek does not mean to allow someone to abuse you. It means give and take. But when you’re doing all the giving and none of the taking, it’s an imbalanced relationship. Balance does not mean 50/50. It means taking turns. One day it’s 40/60 in his favor, but another day, it might be 70/30 in yours. It’s over the long haul that it works out to 50/50. All the stuff Lolana’s said about people that want to control others is right on the money. I am amazed by all the women I know that think telling their families what to do, beating them with guilt trips, is their loving wifely and motherly role. ugh! No it’s not.

When people treat the ones they’re supposed to love the most with contempt, that’s a problem. It’s not just men. Women do it, too. They may have different ways, but the lack of empathy is there … the know-it-all mentality. There are bossy people and there are sociopaths. They are not the same thing.

There is NOTHING you can do with a sociopath. If they ever believed they were doing something wrong, I believe they could change. That’s the key. They think everyone else is wrong. Neurotics (I used to be one) think that they’re guilty of everything. That’s the polar opposite attraction, right there. At least neurotics accept responsibility (even for things that are not their fault), so there is a way for them to find the healthy, middle range. Extremists at the other end, that believe they’re right and everyone else is wrong, have no motivation to change. The only hope is to walk away from them, heal yourself, and be available for a healthy relationship with another healthy (albeit imperfect) person.

Best wishes to you. You can heal yourself and move on, but only if you understand that you cannot heal him with your love. Only he can heal himself and since he does not believe he has a problem, it’s highly unlikely that he ever will.

Reply

Sharon 15 January 2010 at 5:00 pm Permalink

I am currently dealing with another round of the silent treatment. I have been married 11 years. It has been on and off for four years for a weekend or a week. Then, last year while he was in Afghanistan, he did not talk to me or our kids for 7 months. We have two children together, 8 and 5, and i don’t understand how anyone could ignore their own kids? So, he came back, and i forgave him, blaming it on war stress, and we pretended to be happy. I really believed that people could change to treat others how u want to be treated, but nope! That 7 month gap really left us completely disconnected. Now, he is back in Afghanistan, and he has not talked to us since November 17. I know this is sooo abnormal, and after reading these comments, I know this is wrong. I just thought he needed his “space” dealing with his deployments, but i realize that other healthy people care what their spouses and children think, feel, act, and do. I do not want to suffer this abusive relationship anymore. I just hope the lawyers will not leave us destitute. I have been the stay at home Mom since 2002. I did graduate in May 2008 with a BS in Biology, minor Chemistry, but I am nervous about becoming independent. It hurts so much when u realize your fairy tale will not exist. I know there will be new life again, a new love, it’s just making it through now sucks!!! Does anyone have any ideas how to be stronger through this?

Reply

silent at work 3 January 2010 at 8:47 am Permalink

I need some help. What do you people think? There is this coworker that i work with that gossips a lot, and i have to see that individual everyday. Well they managed to talk behind my back, but i caught that individual talking behind my back red handed on accident one time. This person claimed to be my friend and said that my friendship meant a lot to them.

After that, all i can muster is a good morning to them. We work in the same cubicle. It tears me up everyday, but they have continuously shown that they are a heartless, selfish person, so I feel like I couldn’t even forgive them. Any ideas?

Reply

Hard to let go 4 January 2010 at 1:27 am Permalink

Reading this website is quite insightful. I have been given the silent treatment for the past two weeks. The evening it started I brought up a touchy subject with my friend about his difficulty to maintain an erection and ejaculates in less than 30 seconds. I have been seeing him for 9 months and thought it was time we discussed this. I was very gentle and sensitive not to make him uncomfortable becasue I am sure it is something he is not proud of. But instead of discussing it he decided that watching the football game was more important and flat out told me it was not something he wanted to discuss. I left on a sour note but the following day I sent him a text and I apoligized for bringing it up and let him know hw still pleases me. I got nothing in return. A few days went by and I sent him another text wishing him a nice Christmas….no reply. Now I was hurt…and feeling this pain you are all referring to. A pit in my stomach that I did someething wrong. A few MORE days went by and I again text him and wished him well on his holiday trip. No response. By evening I was pissed. I sent him ANOTHER text saying that most people would at the LEAST “Thank you” when someone wishes them well for the holdays as well as wishing them well on a vacation. I said “It is obvious you do not want to speak to me so the ball is in your court”….again I hear nothing. This eats at me daily. I keep checking my email, my text and NOTHING. SO…today is the 3rd and before this silent treatment started we had made a friendly bet on a football game that aired today. I waited until the game was over…and since I won the bet, and my wish if I won was to be able to take HIM to dinner as he will NEVER LET ME PAY!!!!! So, I sent him a text and said ” A bet is a bet and I keep my end of the bargain. Does Friday work for you?”…..three hours passed and I finally got “Sorry…I will have to check”….He’s ALIVE!!!! Personally I could care less about taking him to dinner…..it was needing to hear a word out of him that I was after. I have not responded and now after reading all this….I think it best that I do not. He did this to me once before for 10 days…..it was torchure for me…now again. My heart has ached for two weeks and now I understand that this is really a form of abuse. Another way to CONTROL someone…and it freaking worked on me!!!!!! I just wasnt aware that I was even falling into his game. Now I know. I am not feeling good about the fact that I have LET HIM affeft me but better to realize this late than never. Thanks for the insite to this “sickness” both on his part and on mine.

Reply

Beth 4 January 2010 at 6:00 am Permalink

Hi all!

I’m trying to figure out if what my boyfriend puts me through is the silent treatment or if it is just a cooling off period like he says. When he gets mad at me he tells me he needs time alone and kicks me out of his house. From there I am not supposed to call, text, email, come by or in any way shape or form contact him. This will last for as long as I let it go. He says he can comfortably go for 24 hours without talking to me trying to “cool down” and it sometimes takes him up to three days not to be angry. He does not answer my calls and he mostly ignores my texts. he refuses to call or text me. I can ask him direct questions and he will not answer. when he does start talking to me again he acts as if he’s doing me a favor. Is this a form of the silent treatment?

What about when he does respond to me only to tell me how I’m interrupting his day and to stop contacting him. Is this a form of control? Thank u all.

Reply

Venus 7 January 2010 at 9:48 pm Permalink

Time to let him go. Yes, it is a “control” thing. And it will only get worst. You can bet $ on it.

Reply
Lolana 13 January 2010 at 3:06 am Permalink

Yeah this is familiar and scary….it’s disrespectful you definitely deserve better than that. It’s creepy behavior.

Reply
Annie 15 January 2010 at 8:15 pm Permalink

For all the single ladies on this site complaining about their boyfriends “Silent Treatment” my advice to you is that I’ve been married now 16 years and find it hard to get out of this mind boggling game, if you are not living with this guy run and run as fast as you can, when you really can do it…. I’m sure there are many other guys out there for you and that can make you happy and treat you the way you deserve to be treated. I too, saw the signs before marriage but totally ignored them, why, because I thought he was the one, my soulmate, fear of being alone and not finding someone else, so many stupid excuses. If I knew what I know today about my husbands silent treatments, manuplation, I would of never, never married this guy..

Life is too short trust me, if you stay with a guy like this the years will just pass you by and one day you will wake up and it’s too late, married, kids, in-laws, all the more pressure to dump his sorry ass. lol… sorry got carried away…

I wish you all the best of luck, just remember who you are now and don’t ever lose yourself!!! I know I did.

Reply
- Sue 21 January 2010 at 10:05 am Permalink
  
  Hi Annie, Thanks for your post, I think I was at the point with my ex just where I’m at the fallen for the guy deeply point but I could have married him. I think he has many of the controlling, manipulation signs, etc, but I find I am still loving him, it’s been a year since he broke up with me, and lots of silence after. I feel like I could have married him, almost like thats something not done. But then other days I think I may have just had a lucky escape. But I’m stuck as I cant move on and still love him, despite these things. I dont know why, aside from that I deeply loved him, even though he behaves as he does. Silly isnt it? !!!
  
  I th
  
  Reply
  - Sue 21 January 2010 at 10:11 am Permalink
    
    And yeah I realise I did lose myself into him and the relationship, that I wont do again.
    
    Reply

Debbie 7 January 2010 at 9:23 pm Permalink

Wow, whoever wrote 01/04, if the timing didn’t conflict with mine, I’d swear you had been dating my ex. We argued, I apologized, but he got childish and manipulative and the topper was a silent treatment, still ongoing. Two weeks, and I went from suffering to not caring anymore and glad I got out of a relationship with a mentally ill man before it was too late
At some point, I got wise and realized he is just plain sick to torture me this long, that he cannot possibly care for me to drag it out like this. I sensed he was actually enjoying hurting me.
He had same issue you mention in 2nd sentence. I’ve been genuinely good to him in general and particularly patient in that matter, but it seemed the more I gave the less I got. THen I learned this is a past pattern with him, that he even got cited with contempt of court for not appearing or responding, all because he got caught up in a sick game of manipulation with his exwife. Talk about carrying it too far.
This website was awesome, and the comic strip in particular is great. Anytime you can add humor and actually laugh at a heartbreaking subject and in spite of a breaking heart, you know you’ll be ok.

Reply

Hard to let go 8 January 2010 at 4:06 am Permalink

Well, here is my followup to my previous post on the 4th. I “ran into” my friend who has been giving me the silent treatment for two weeks on Tuesday. I happen to be at dinner with a male friend at the time. Needless to say this did not go over very well, but that is a whole other subject. When I got home I noticed SEVERAL EMAILS/text waiting for me to open from HIM. There were also 4 voice messages waiting for me. INTERSTING…he hasn’t spoke to me in two weeks and then see’s me with another man and BAM…he’s using every way of communication to get in touch with me to no avail….he was probably sending smoke signals as well!!! LOL!!! Anyway, his messages were so over the top rude…making mountains out of molehills when he didnt even know the facts of why and who I was out with. He kept asking me WHY I didn’t return his text or calls when my friend and I left the restaurant….I said because I wanted to give him a little dose of his own medicine. He didn’t understand. I said “THE SILENT TREATMENT YOU”VE BEEN GIVING ME FOR TWO WEEKS” (by this time I have already read this site and everyones thoughts and advise). He immediatly says “I do that to COOL OFF!!” The ol’ I need to cool off crap…please. He said that he learned long ago that he has a temper and if he doesnt do that he will say things he will regret later…..Okay, I give him that…BUT FOR TWO WEEKS???!!!!! ITS NOT LIKE I STEPPED OUT ON HIM!!!! I BROUGHT UP SOMETHING THAT TRUELY NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED (his premature ejaculation problem). So, I told him that I do not deserve to be completely ignored…it would not have killed him to send me back a MERRY CHRISTMAS or even a Happy New Year…VIA TEXT!!!! I wasnt even asking to HEAR HIS VOICE!!!
He agreed with me and made a promise to “work on it”. I give him credit for at least going that far and not denying it. It was very late and I ended the conversation. The next day I sent him an email expressing in more detail how I felt about what he had done and how it made me feel….no response….one hour….two hours…three hours…FINALLY he respond “Not ignoring you, just busy at work” Needless to say, after work he took me out to dinner…we talked more but I didn’t get a “happy ending” (if you know what I mean…Ha Ha…he just took me home and dropped me off. We have a “date” set for Monday…it should be interesting. I think he did use the silent treatment on me to hurt me and have CONTROL…but when he saw me with another man, thinking OH CRAP, she’s not home sulking…she’s OUT…and he probably realized he COULD BE REPLACED IN A HEARTBEAT….he learned real quick that the silent treatment isnt going to work on ME!!! I WILL NO LONGER ALLOW IT!!!! (THANKS TO ALL OF YOU). I am giving him another chance…..and hopefully the REAL PROBLEM behind all of this can be resolved one way or another. I’ll have to figure out how to touch on that subject again with him another way. Thanks again to all of you.

Reply

Lolana 13 January 2010 at 3:12 am Permalink

Wow good luck with that guy but frankly, he scares me…if he’s still so pissed off two weeks later from something you said that he is afraid of losing control of himself, that is a pretty bad flag….be really careful…..ask yourself would he have called you all those times if he had seen you out alone?

Controlling people get insanely jealous and respond to power plays, but it’s not the same thing as love….so just be careful… please keep in touch here.

Reply
- Annie 15 January 2010 at 8:26 pm Permalink
  
  I completely agrea with Lolana on this, this is also another way to manipulate you. That’s what they do, as soon as they see that the silent treatment is not working they come back crawling all nice nice.. until the next fight arises watch, he will go back to his pattern by giving you the silent treatment. Mark our words, this guy will stike again…lol
  
  Reply

Bia 13 January 2010 at 4:05 am Permalink

My question is what is the difference between someone giving the silent trreament and icing you out completely? I got into a disagreement with a man I was dating for a couple of months . I called him on his behavior and he has not spoken to me for 4 months. I was harsh only because I was hurt from his not returning my calls unless he WANTED to. I remember that he really hated cofrontation. He was shaking once when I confronted him. I asked him why and he said he was nervous. I wonder how long this will go on for. i have tried to contact him so many times since August and he continues to shut me out. But he won’t even tell me he doesnt want to talk to me either so i don’t know what to think. Is he angry, or just not interested in knowing me anymore. I don’t get it.

Reply

Lolana 14 January 2010 at 12:26 am Permalink

I’m sorry Bia that is terrible. Your confrontation probably triggered something in his mind and you can’t know what that is, but you had the right to confront him about it if it was bothering you. The only other option would have been to suffer in silence and become resentful and nasty.

This kind of thing hurts but my experience is that when a person does that sort of thing, it’s what you can expect from them when you try to deal with problems. People don’t change all that easily, depending on how old you are. A big fantasy I had was of changing the guys I dated who behaved like that. I came to this forum not because of a guy but because of my birth family who is still icing me out. That’s what I learned from them, so I repeated it with guys, thinking being treated like that was normal and something to expect—or, at least, that this type of guy seemed attracted to me and the healthier ones weren’t, so this was going to be my fate. It wasn’t until I found an amazing guy who didn’t do this to me at all, that actually didn’t bore me, that I have had a relationship without any power struggles at all.

It is a whole different way of life, not having to deal with keeping score and power struggles. I still struggle with having to let go my family which is why I come post here and read what happens to other people. It is a much more common problem than I knew and I feel less of a lame-o for having it happen to me.

Anyway, I wrote in my blog about the last time I saw my family and I thought you all here might enjoy it. Here’s the link

http://exiledinhollywood.blogspot.com/2010/01/last-time-i-saw-my-family.html

Happy New Year and feel free to post again this is a great column.

Reply

grace 15 January 2010 at 9:28 pm Permalink

Well, my husband takes these “business trips” out of town for a few days at a time every month, and he always assures me that they’re just business trips. but, the last time he went, his cell phone kept mistakenly calling me, and i heard him with another woman (I dont know who it was, and Im not sure if he’s having an affair), and i could tell the he was at a strip joint, and I am totally against strip clubs. I texted him on his cell phone to tell him everything I heard , and he just outright lied and told me that I’m just paranoid! I haven’t spoken to him in a few days, and it just seems like he doesn’t care, and it just breaks my heart. Am I the one in the wrong here for giving him the silent treatment? I know that if I do speak to him, he’s just going give me a bunch of lies anyway.

Reply

marcus 16 January 2010 at 4:43 pm Permalink

The “silent treatment” is a pretty immature and abusive way of dealing with a conflict. It can say: “I am here because I have to be but I don’t want to communicate with you and I don’t like you”. If in a one-on-one relationship, I generally react rather strongly to this, will read the relationship as ended and distance myself. After all, that is what the silent treatment, on the surface, is asking for. Also someone who behaves like this with you is cruel and has issues and, however painful it is, they are probably not worth being around. Tell them to f*ck off if you want but it’s never really productive or satisfying I think to formally terminate a friendship (not talking about lovers here). Instead, all you have to do is see less of them, be polite but reciprocate their lack of interest – that does mean the friendship is over but it doesn’t cause scenes and this leaves the door ajar should things improve and they grow up which I think is not a bad idea.

But the silent treatment can also be a neurotic pattern learned from somewhere that craves attention. It can say: “See how important I am to you – see how much you value me if I withdraw my affection? Acknowledge how important I am to you!”. In other words, while punishing you, they are seeking reinforcement that you care about them enough to be hurt – which is contradictory but that’s the nature of neurotic behavior. If this is the case you could try saying: “look I’m very hurt that you are not communicating with me because our friendship is really important and I value you etc” and see if that defuses things.

I think also there is a half-way partial kind of silent treatment which isn’t silent at all. This is when someone is still talking to you and is almost interacting as a friend but not quite. You both go through some of the motions of friendship but something has changed and their is an underlying hostility and lack of trust that kills the enjoyment of the relationship. I’m in the situation at the moment with somebody – it started when I got very angry with her for messing me around over a dinner invitation that was important to me. Since then things have not been the same. My best guess is she feels I am oversensitive and digs at me to prove this, in which case I would be best advised not to react. I am hopeful things will repair given time.

Reply

Debbie 19 January 2010 at 6:53 pm Permalink

I wonder how things are working out for ”hard to let go” because my own experience tells me people don’t change. I too wonder if he wasn’t motivated only by jealousy and a loss of control when he saw her with another man.

Silent treatments are a form of abuse, and a pretty sick one. The people capable of them are the same types who hold grudges forever for every stupid perceived wrong…they never forgive and believe they have some kind of power over people when in fact they’re only destorying themselves. When all else fails, they go silent. They get off on it.
I think it’s sick and potentially dangerous and life is too short to go out with or marry someone who will always have you walking on eggshells.

Reply

Debbie 20 January 2010 at 1:20 am Permalink

I like what Denise posted.
We make a decision to be manipulated, or not.
It’s not easy when someone warps our love for them and twists it into a control issue. It hurts.

And of course it’s easier said than done to walk away from one we love, but it’s not fair if that person is giving you the silent treatment or in any other way abusing you. Love shouldn’t hurt constantly and deliberately.

Reply

Bianca 20 January 2010 at 1:50 am Permalink

I can’t help but try to figure these people out. I know I should just move on but I keep asking myself How on earth could someone remain silent for that long? I have also noticed that people who inflict silence are also prone to lying all the time. I think this is a way of avoiding intimacy.

I keep thinking of what I will say to him if he ever talks to me again. It’s sort of pathetic that I would even care

Reply

Sue 20 January 2010 at 10:48 am Permalink

Hi,

Can anyone advise here? I was seeing a guy for almost 3 yrs, its a year ago he broke up with me at the end of the day on my birthday. I really thought he was the one I could marry and spend many years ahead with. I’m really badly heartbroken, he was the first person I really deeply loved.

And now, it’s like I dont exist. He said he’d be friends, but I’m getting totally blanked like I am invisible. I dont understand how someone can go from really caring about you, loving you, to treating you like you dont exist. He said we’d meet in about six months, i.e. before Christmas, but we then didnt. I think now that was all lies possibly, just to say that friends thing, when the reality is I may never see him again ever. How can someone do that? How can he just disappear from my life, when I really deeply loved him, and he doesnt even check to see if I am ok.

I could have died and he wouldnt even notice or care it seems. Am not coping at all well with this. It’s not even really the break up so much, but how and that I am being ignored now like I am a nobody. I dont understand how anyone can be so mean to another whom they know deeply loves (loved) them.

Any advice please?

Reply

Debbie 21 January 2010 at 1:56 am Permalink

Sue, I feel your pain, I truly do. I know it’s hard to hear this and accept it but take it from one who’s been there…I had a bf like this and he turned out to be a sociopath.
They don’t really love in the true sense if they can do this. Maybe it’s not as sick or dramatic in your case, but I sense your hurt is just as deep, esp. after 3 years.
I have no idea how someone can do this, but they do. Normal people DON’T. Normal, compassionate people who are capable of true intimacy and an adult relationship have empathy. They would handle even a breakup with more consideration and dignity.
I hope it has gotten a bit easier. In my case, it did with time. The first few mos. were hard, but I started to feel like myself again and was glad I got out of a relationship with a sick psychotic man before it was too late. I have since learned that he abused his exwife, used to hit her, once threw a TV at the window, in front of their daughters. I’ve since gotten the lowdown. Better to find out ahead of time.
God bless you Sue. You’re going to come out ahead in this. What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. And without a hurt, the heart is hollow. It will make you a better person.
Debbie

Reply

Sue 21 January 2010 at 9:50 am Permalink

Thanks for your reply Debbie, I think yes there are some issues there with him and I had a lucky escape. But it’s been a year now, my birthday being just in the new year of last year. I find like today myself waking up and still feeling I am deeply in love with him. I think because we had so much more we should have done together. It’s tearing me apart, as it’s hard to get other areas of your life going with this as it is. I tried moving on and each time I think I have sorted out my mind’s thoughts, I find myself stuck.

Yes I am very stuck. I am still deeply in love with him and dont know how to get out of that.

I think you are right on one thing, and I dont believe it’s malicious on their part but this type of man has no empathy so there is an absence of compassion and good love I guess.

All my friends are worried about me, as they see I am stuck but I cant get unstuck. Like you when I wake up there is a real deep sadness feeling I had in my life. Like the light is always out, there’s no joy almost. People try to joke or make me laugh, but I dont laugh much anymore, as I see no joy, only sadness in me.

I dont know how to break the cycle, does anyone know of any books about that type of thing, healing from broken heart? !!

I dont know if any of you have seen the film, The Holiday, with Kate Winslet and Cameron Diaz, it was on a lot at Christmas, but I am just like Kate’s character, though he did reciprocate his love many times. But I am just where her character is emotions and situation wise almost.

At Christmas I got a card from him, first contact in about 3 months, written as if know your birtthere is nothing wrong. Signed off, we can meet sometime, saying he knew it was my birthday coming up in the new year and with “love and hugs xxx”. My birthday 2010 came and went, I thought he may send me a card or something, but no nothing, silence again, no text, no email, no card, no call, nothing, I mean, what is that about!!! Messing my head again and again.

I know my story is not as bad as some on here, in that I had not been hit, but I’ve never encountered this playing games of the mind, and it’s really messed me up. I’m on year on after he broke up with me, and still as bad as then. But had no idea before what it may be due to.

This is really hell, I think it has been psychologically/emotionally abusive, though I find I dont like to attach that label to him. I like to see the best in people, and am very loyal, but now I am seriously suffering. Isnt this what can happen in many domestic abuse situations, the woman hangs on or goes back because she cares or loves him, and he knows it. And I think a lot of the harm is unintentional by them, it’s something in their makeup is not quite right, e.g. no empathy, etc.

Oh what a catch – not! I think I am going insane with this overanalysing of it all and inability to move on, argh!

I’ll get that book Debbie it sounds like a must for me. Are there any others anyone can suggest for healing or moving on, etc.?

Reply

Debbie 21 January 2010 at 2:02 am Permalink

From Bianca: I keep thinking of what I will say to him if he ever talks to me again. It’s sort of pathetic that I would even care.

No it is not pathetic Bianca. It just means you’re holding out hope for the potential good you saw in the relationship. I’ve been there done that, still do it sometimes, but it was more a fantasy of him coming back sniveling and me being in control. Until (this is only in my case, I’m not saying all guys who give the silent treatment are sociopaths) I learned just how sick he is.
That he’s beyond hope or help. (See my post to Sue for details).
It still hurts. I’m so lonely especially, and not quite ready to date again although I’m starting to feel myself and even smile at men I meet and don’t wake up anymore feeling like all my happiness was based on my relationship with him and his acceptance of me.
I read a great book “How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved.” I recommend it highly, cleared my head.
Bianca if you keep trying to figure these guys out, it will help you at least to do that and more importantly, it advises that the more important thing to do is save yourself. You can’t change him.
I hope this helps.

Reply

Debra 21 January 2010 at 5:46 pm Permalink

(Since there are 2 Debbies on here, I’m going to go by Debra from now on to differentiate…)
Sue, I know it’s easy to say but I think you need to at least TRY to forget this guy who has so callously forgotten about you and cut you off. Otherwise, I think you’re setting yourself up for a future abusive relationship either with him or someone new. You say your friends are worried about you, you are lucky to have their support. Don’t lose them. You must have some interests and hobbies, things you like to do. Do them! Go out with your friends. Throw yourself into your job. Go back to school, take up a new sport. It will make you feel better about yourself and take your mind off of what is now an imaginary relationship based on the past and on only one persona he presented.
I still do it too. As time passes, I remember only the good. We forget pain until it’s inflicted again. If you were to get back with him, you’d find the same pattern emerging in a shorter time.
Do you call him or text or write? Does he respond? If not, he’s sick and he’s cruel or he just never really loved you and only played a game.
Thereare a lot of good men out there but you won’t find any if you don’t at least try. Meanwhile, take care of yourself, get a facial or a manicure…whatever…but you have to try. Staying in love with him is not healthy, and it obviously wasn’t a healthy relationship. A year is long enough to mourn.
I like this which I read somewhere: No matter how bad you feel, Get up, Dress up and Show up.
Don’t lay in bed dwelling on this.

Reply

Sue 23 January 2010 at 6:19 pm Permalink

Thank you “Debra”, you are quite right and it’s really useful to read. I had just stopped doing the things I usually do. I think I have mild depression set in too. I guess I’m mourning a bit, but more that it was non-acceptance, just simply not dealing with it in a forward way. I guess I also have been beating myself up because I forgave him and took him back and gave him a second chance, which I thought and believed is good to do. But no, even if he came back now (which I sense he may in the future) I can’t go back to him, even though I have some love for him. As he’s done a good job of killing the strong love I had for him by his actions.

It is a mental battle to heal and recover from someone who I thought I could marry, have kids with, and be together for many years. I totally hear what you say about “good love”.

I realise now he is the type who is actually treating the person closest to him the worst, though obviously to begin with the first 6 months are all charming to win you first. It saddens me to think that.

Re communication, I have sent a few of emails to him, he’s replied to a few, others he’s ignored. Not right is it? Then for new year, as with my friends, I sent a text to people to wish them a happy new year, most reply back to that wishing the same. He ignored it. Oh what a catch he was – when I put it that way, it shows someone’s true colours.

For him, I don’t think the behaviour is intentionally cruel, am I in denial? Perhaps, I guess it is cruel, as he knows he’s doing it, I view it more as inhumane, and heartless. I guess they are all the same words, and I am making excuses! But not necessarily malicious, in the way I’ve read some abusive relations can be where they get enjoyment from controlling you. I guess that is what it is, the silence is control isn’t it. Dictating when you can or can’t be allowed to communicate. Treating someone like they don’t exist is however awful, especially when I have been so loving. It’s a really heartless thing to do. I just dont get that behaviour at all. How can anyone do that to someone they loved, or they know loves them. How?

Anyway, you are right, I need to recover, rebuild, get back to my old confident self. Thank you, your advice is fab.

Reply

lolanyc 22 January 2010 at 4:33 pm Permalink

Ive been dating this guy 5 months ive met his family friends. had holidays together told me he loved me.. but he had this ex who kept calling him weekly that i even know of. she wants him back he says he doesnt answer the phone. he doesnt want her ect..
so he was acting funny, distant i tried to look at his phone he has a game on it i like and he took it from me which i thought was odd.

so i was by his place and he went out and i looked in the box of condoms we had and i know we only used 1. I know. and 2 were missing! i didnt know what to think or do!!

he came home.. i dont live with him.. we are both 35. i said ” why are there 2 condoms missing” he said i dont know then he said maybe i brought them to my moms when we went for the holidays in his bag. no wwe never used them i didnt ask to see the bag..

he then goes on to say i dont wanna talk on my day off i just wanna relax.. like completely cutting me off!!
he said i cant believe you dont trust me! I cant beleieve u counted the condoms.. and i didnt count! it was clear that more than 1 was gone. i dont know why I looked in the drawer. I really dont. i said its cuz your ex keeps calling.. there was even some of her stuff still in his medicine cabinet hes like look girls stuff i dont know what this is.. he threw it out..

then he laid on the bed eyes closed i said are u mad?? i said I do believe you i do trust you.. and hes like im dissapointed..

ok so i ended up leaving that day we kissed goodbye.. didnt really solve anything. I texted him that night the next day 2ce and a call.. i left him alone 1 day then the next day i texted 2ce and called once but no message.. so its been 4 days and no contact.

i have his apt key and my stuff is still at his place. he does seem a bit controlling, and tries to dominate me alot.. not in a mean way though. this is the 1st time and i dont know if he thinks im nuts for counting them… something that wasnt mine. i said but their our condoms and he said no i bought them their mine like everything else in this apt! meanwhile when we 1st dated he said whats mine is yours!

is this just an issue of control and tourture? or is he that pissed? did he cheat? i dont know. maybe i was wrong…

but to do this>? this long?? what should i do now just ignore him dont call? how long should i wait?

Reply

Lolana 4 February 2010 at 1:34 am Permalink

It sounds to me like he is playing with your head!

Reply

iamtiredofit 23 January 2010 at 6:12 pm Permalink

I was abused and even up to today for a very long time in this way, and it still hurts up to right now when I think about it. The person who abused me- is an anti domestic violence advocate…………go figure. That is what hurts me worst of all- just knowing that she was my mentor and hero and is Supposed to know better than to treat me this way- but she continues to treat just ME this way while going on helping everybody else who is not me, and every day and on a continuing basis it just HURTS to my very core. And nobody seems to understand how hurtful this truly is. And as stated in the article, ever since it happened, it has taken a toll on me. Many times I’ve wished death on myself because I’ve felt like a horrible human being, being ignored can all plays mind games with you, I have health issues, weight issues which I’ve never had before, and true feelings of plainly not caring about much when it comes to myself. YES, ignoring somebody who is a person who exists just as plainly as any reader of this article does, can truly be detrimental to their health in the end.

Reply

Debra 23 January 2010 at 11:24 pm Permalink

Sue,
I’ve SO been there, even displaying kindness and compassion because, I thought, he didn’t know what he was doing and his “other personality” is great…he doesn’t know what a jerk he is, can’t help it…if he had this other side that showed so much love, it’s still got to be there, right?!
WRONG.
It was an act. Maybe he did it unconsciously, but it still signals a sick man who will never treat you right.

He is not losing sleep thinking about how much he still loves YOU. He doesnt even give you the courtesy of answering your calls and texts. He’s just using you and hurting you.
Please don’t allow it.
Well, it’s a slow process and it takes time but you have to take your life back and assume control. Otherwise his silent treament and deliberately ignoring your contact is another way he likes putting the nail in the coffin. (And yes, they do like it…because they like control so getting emails etc. from someone who loves them, just so they can ignore them, is control and they LIKE that) Three years with talk of marriage is serious. He knows you and knows how to push your buttons and probably thinks you’ll come running back if he finally does call, just to let you dangle again.
I’ve seen this too many times, and let myself, after a 10 yr. absense get suckered into another misogynist’s web…I was so giving, we talked of marriage, the whole 9 yards.
And yes, I was devastated afterwards. It didn’t add up!
But I don’t care, anyone who can shut their emotions off so completely after being in a serious relationship and gaining someone’s intimacy and trust is plain sick.
When you’re with a sick person, one of two things can happen. Either being around you makes them ”better” or else their sickness is going to bring you down and make YOU sick. (That’s what happens when women stay in abusive relationships.)

I hate to think of you mourning this guy and feeling so miserablel, only because I’ve been there. And if it just happened to you, I’d say you need the time to grieve, but I think it’s unhealthy for you to continue to do so and it’s unproductive, won’t bring him back. Remember: you don’t want him back. You deserve better.

It’s always hard to end a relationship when we thought that person was the one…I know…( I KNOW) but if I can share any wisdom from my bruised heart, it is to not let an abusive person control you, via silent treatment or any other b.s.

It is a shame there are so many creepy people out there in the world and they victimize genuinely nice people.
I hope this helped. I hope I was not too harsh or making it sound too simple, I know it’s not. That which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.

Reply

Sue 24 January 2010 at 1:14 am Permalink

Hi Debra

Thanks for your advice is it really helpful, and simple and direct/blunt is probably the best way right now, with this type of situation.

When you say, “anyone who can shut their emotions off so completely after being in a serious relationship and gaining someone’s intimacy and trust is plain sick.”
- this is the type of behaviour I dont understand, and yes, I think you are exactly right there.

And, I was originally pre-him a very confident happy person, by the end I was totally brought down, lost confidence, like an emotional wreck, due to how I was being made to feeling when with him, mostly through being ignored at times, being treated as insignificant at times, almost like taken for granted, but by then he knew I was deeply fallen in love with him. As you said too caring, and I think I was too in love with him.

I will start doing and rebuilding myself, and my shattered self confidence, and start getting out and back to doing fun stuff, new and old stuff I used to before. Yes, you are quite right, I need to take back full control of my life. I wont let him dicate anything over me in any way, his silence going forward will be his problem, not any control over me.

Sue

Reply

Sue 24 January 2010 at 8:41 am Permalink

Also, if I am really honest, right now I am truly badly heartbroken over it all. The trust and intimacy I gave has now been totally shattered. I feel extremely exhausted.

I just dont have the energy or cant face the emotional trauma of starting over again, and being at risk of that happening again.

Also, if I was going to have kids it would be in the next few years, and yeah I thought he was “the one”. How can you recover from that. I’m so heartbroken with no energy left, and little faith in good guys out there.

Silence, and being blanked now is absolute mental torture, and really cruel from someone who I did trust and was intimate with. I feel I have so much damage to myself now, that I never had before.

Reply

Debra 25 January 2010 at 10:23 pm Permalink

Sue,
It’s terribly painful and it’s going to take time.
No one can explain why someone would be cruel enough to completely gain your love and trust and then stomp on it so viciously and deliberately.
Just be glad that you’re not like that.
It’s the worst kind of betrayal, but at least you’ll be better prepared should you ever meet another heartless man. I know that’s little comfort now and you’re probably still wondering “what if, what if??”
One day at a time. You’ll be ok. Like you said you were an upbeat person before you met him.
His “act” built you up and then threw you down, but you’ll regain your footing and your shattered self-confidence will not be shattered any longer.
The next time you feel yourself truly badly heartbroken, think of his more recent actions, the deliberate cruelty. You don’t deserve that!

Reply

Sue 26 January 2010 at 4:29 pm Permalink

Thanks Debra, what you wrote is immensely helpful to my situation.

For those who have been in such situations, of emotional abuse of any form, in my research for good books, I’ve come across this one which many people have rated highly, so I have it on order now too.

Why Does he do that?
by Lundy Bancroft

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0425191656?tag=kensavagecom-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=0425191656&adid=15KTJQ4QB5BJM7XCMWEW&

Reply
- Venus 28 January 2010 at 9:37 pm Permalink
  
  I just want to say that I second this book as a recommendation.
  
  It is excellent! And also it’s very eye-opening once you realize how calculated these types of peoples’ actions are!
  
  Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft
  
  Reply
  - Sue 29 January 2010 at 12:39 am Permalink
    
    I have just got this book:
    
    Why Does He Do That?
    Inside the minds of angry and controlling men
    by Lundy Bancroft
    
    - I definitely recommend it, I can’t put it down, and am about two thirds through reading it already and so many things make sense now, and so many classic signs. It’s very helpful to read about the types of abusive behaviours too, as it’s quite therapeutic to read it too.
    
    Reply

samantha 27 January 2010 at 11:11 pm Permalink

I was in an abusive relationship for 8 years and it recently ended. We share a child together, so therefor, we have to communicate. He is refusing to do even that. He is angry and bitter towards me and feels if he ignores me ans doen’t answer emails, calls and texts then I will get upset. He knows this is one of my biggest pet peeves, and doedn’t care!! I have depression and sdhd, so it only makes this worse in my case. I still care for him and wish things were different, and he DOES NOT!!! He has my child this week due to a custody agreement, and I am suppose to pick her up and he is saying to others not to. I am frustrated and angry, and even more hurt then you can imagine. I have said some things out of anger about him and I am sure this is why he is acting like a child.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 1:10 am Permalink

Hi Samantha,

Its sounds very traumatic what you are dealing with. Are you able to say what types of abusive behaviours you were dealing with?

He’s still trying to control you with silence even after you have split, that is what I am dealing with too, just no kid involved. It’s pure mind bending control, and as you say as it’s one of the key things they know you want the most, communication, so they give you zero. Be strong.

Depression was creeping in with me too, try the herbal remedy St. Johns Wort, it’s good for depression.

Reply

Debra 28 January 2010 at 6:17 pm Permalink

The more I read from others, the clearer the sick “silent treatment” appears. These are men who probably held their breath till they turned blue as kids. They never outgrew their childish, maladaptive patterns. They are disingenuous.
Before my relationship ended, my bf did other things besides silent treatment to get off on his feeling of control. At the last minute, he would cancel plans to have dinner with my friends in their home…not because something came up but because he got a perverse delight in causing trouble, he liked the shock value of it. He liked disappointing me and putting me in embarrassing and awkward positions. Normal people don’t do these things. Another stupid form of control. Also, though, normal people don’t have to put up with the stupid games these guys play. Life’s too short. I intend to spend it with people who are real, and who can be trusted.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 1:12 am Permalink

Hi Debra

Looking back my guy did disappoint me a lot too. I guess there were quite a few signs when I think back, but I was too deeply in love to spot them for what they really were.

Lessons learnt the hard way. i.e. The little signs are important to indicate the future, and trust your gut feel.

Reply

Paul 29 January 2010 at 1:58 am Permalink

Reading the comments on this forum has been a help to me, through 44 months (yes, almost 4 years) of the silent treatment at work, 5 days a week. The situation came to an end last October when the source of the silent treatment lost her job over it, mostly because she had taken the same approach with our boss. But the after effects of nearly 4 years of being made to feel insignificant didn’t just end there, and they are proving more difficult to get rid of. I have been losing sleep at night for the last 3 and a half years, getting maybe 4 – 5 hours sleep per night, and last December I had a seizure which my neurologist says could have been caused by lack of sleep/exhaustion.

But that’s beside the point. Reading the comments here for the last couple of years, a few things struck me. How come this forum seems to have only women discussing their silent treatment at the hands of their boyfriends/husbands? Where are all the men (aside from me) who are getting the silent treatment? Do they just not talk about it? I must have been naive when I used to think the silent treatment was mostly a method of punishment (and a very effective one) used by women against men. So that’s one big area where this forum has been an eye-opener.

Also, lately there have been some comments (I don’t remember the original author) from and in response to a woman who was getting the silent treatment from a guy she had just broken up with. But after a break up, isn’t it sometimes better (although maybe more painful, at first) to go “cold turkey” without lingering contacts with the person you just can’t get over? It just seemed to me that when I had a crush on someone whom I couldn’t get out of my mind, the response from people (including friends) would be “You’re just obsessed, you need to get over her!”
But on this forum, I never see the word “obsessed” or “obsession” even mentioned. Isn’t being unable to get over someone who is not as interested in you as you are in them, losing sleep, not being able to eat, etc., pretty much the definition of obsession? Don’t get me wrong: I hate the word obsession, because it seemed like the people who told me I was “only obsessed” were saying that it was illegitimate for me to feel as I did, about the object of those feelings. But the stories on this forum make me wonder, where is the line between love and “obsession”..? Is it a thin line? Is there a line at all, or is LOVE really just a lucky fate where two people are mutually “obsessed” with each other?

I can’t help but think that someone who uses the silent treatment after a break up, might just be doing the other person a favor in the long term: maybe it’s just that guy’s way of getting over you? Maybe he’s finding it just as hard as you are, and no contact is better than having lingering contacts that will just prolong the false hope of a reconciliation? I have always thought that when one person in a break up says they “still want to be friends”, it’s because deep down, they still hope to get back together again, or change the other person’s mind again.

I could be all wrong (I’m only a man after all) – hell, I haven’t been right yet, but that’s why I’m here.

Reply

Venus 29 January 2010 at 2:54 pm Permalink

Hello Paul,
Welcome to the blog. It’s nice to have a man around here. I have researched on many different sites and it seems men are equally affected by this, it just probably isn’t well-reflected here. Being made to feel insignificant/invisible and loss of sleep are all related to the silent treatment, no doubt. And no doubt it lead to your procedure.
As for the “obsessed” thing, my point of view comes from a married one so I can’t relate to those breaking up and then having the silent treatment. My experience is from being in a marriage and having my husband do this constnatly to me whenever he was upset over something (even minor) or when he just was in a bad mood. It would last from a few days to a couple of weeks. The number it did on my head is still something I deal with today and there is really no better word to describe going through something like that habitually as ‘crippling.’ I felt dead inside a lot of times from being in a house with my spouse, who is supposed to love me, just complely ignoring my existance.
We’re separated now.
There are a lot of warning signs, as I saw someone mention above (think it was Sue). Definitely pay attention to your instincts/gut always. They are there for a reason.

Reply
Lolana 4 February 2010 at 2:16 am Permalink

Hi Paul, I was wondering the same thing…where are the guys? Because women do this too, in fact my problem is not with a guy but with family members in particular women. But I did have this problem with guys and it does get obsessional. It can be a really vicious circle because when people are ambivalent about what they want, they often know exactly what words to use to keep you in the grey area thinking there is hope.

There were two relationships that went on like that for years with me. The first one I dumped because I hated the obsessive craziness I felt when he gave me the silent treatment. He did it to everyone, not just me. His employer (a major network news organization) didn’t like it very much either when for example he went awol for a week and refused to answer pages and phone calls. somewhow he kept the job.
anyway, that guy I really was in love with, but I could not take it, so broke up with him. Cold turkey, hurt bad. a year later, he had to have me, when he discovered i’d fallen in love with yet another ambivalent guy. He then became just as obsessed as I had been, and I got to see firsthand how it looks from the other perspective (and it ain’t pretty either).
Second guy even more ambivalent and he was the one who really cured me because after that I was like, no more period. But he kept me on the string for four years and knew exactly what to say to give me hope. As long as things were ‘Undefined” we could be together. I was so hopelessly gone on him that I was OK with it.
Until I wasn’t.
then I met my current boyfriend and by then was so sick of the routine that I fell for an actually really cool guy, a self-described “reformed narcissist” who has exhibited zero narcissistic behavior and who now is half my sanity.
It can happen but you have to get away from people who do this to you. Unfortunately that meant the people who called themselves my “family”, I was always there for them, never turned them away, but they ignored me, refused to take my points of view and lifestyle and political beliefs seriously. Frankly I cannot take their political beliefs seriously either, but I was always willing to talk and never put anyone down.
When my dad sent me a book called “Liberal Fascism” (to describe my progressive political beliefs, I assume) that was pretty much it for me. What is left to say when someone calls you a fascist?

But otherwise, you’re right. Total cutoff is the only way if it’s really over. Problem is this:
1) making everything the other person’s fault
2) insisting they are crazy
3) denying the other person’s reality (saying they’re crazy and don’t trust him, like the woman above who posted about finding condoms
4) dishonesty

you’re a guy, why do you think no guys are posting here? Is it because women are more inclined to talk about emotional issues? Interestingly, this is a guy’s blog, Ken Savage.

Reply
in limbo 12 July 2010 at 6:21 am Permalink

Thank you for writing, for your perspective! I’m wondering about the line between obsession and love myself. In a way, I think you’re right, that love is when two people are mutually obsessed with one another. And when one person loves someone unreciprocated, then it’s an obsession and “bad”.

In my case, I was in love with this man (also friend, coworker, neighbor). When he got a girlfriend, I realized he didn’t and wasn’t going to feel the same way about me. I was obsessed with him (fascinated would be a better way to put it) and I did romantically love him still, but I tried to put those feelings aside and we ended up being good friends. I would hang out casually with him and his girlfriend and some other buddies and everything was ok. Eventually they broke up and we had some tiffs with our other friends, so things just ended up with me and him hanging out. Or me, him, and a third friend. Anyway, we never dated. I still loved him, but I knew he didn’t feel that way about me and I was perfectly content with our friendship. And we developed a really close friendship for a couple of years.

And then a new girlfriend enters the picture. He stopped hanging out with me overnight. I initially felt heartbroken, but then I just waited. They’re do a honeymooner period and all. And he’d reassure me that we were still friends and we could go back to hanging out but he has to let his new girlfriend get used to the idea first. That never happened. Over the course of several months, a lot of drama ensued. I felt left out because he and his girlfriend started hanging out with other people, everyone but me. Long story short, they ended up shunning me. They called me a stalker (I had been obsessed with him but what they saw as me following them, I knew was the unfortunate coincidences of being in a small town).

Because of everything that transpired and the label stalker, I’ve asked myself endless questions on the boundaries between love and obsession. That it’s ok to want to be around someone as long as they want you around. But the second they no longer want you around, if you still want to be around them as much as you used to, does that mean you’re now a stalker, or, at least, desperate, pathetic, insecure etc.? I might think that such broad use of the term “stalker” does injustice to the real ones. But it also shows that reality is a matter of perception. Even if a person isn’t being followed, that they fear being followed is still a problem. And I feel awful too, that somehow I was the catalyst for such fear/paranoia, and hatred. because we were friends? because I loved him?

And perhaps, as you said, him shunning me might have been his way of trying to let go of the relationship too. Maybe he thought, as you suggest, it would help me let go of him. But honestly, it didn’t do anybody any favors. I think it made everyone involved more miserable. and it didn’t “help me let go” – I was already over him, we were just friends and I wanted him and his girlfriend to be happy together. It was my mistake to believe the friendship could be salvaged (it was with the previous girlfriend). Anyway, the shunning didn’t help me let go, it just made me feel hated, trapped, vilified, alone, worthless etc. and hurt that he could, and did, do that to me.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 10:12 am Permalink

Hi Paul, I think I am one of the people who you refer to as getting silent treatment after a break up. Yes for awhile I couldnt determine was the issue I was dealing with just the simple “no contact” thing as opposed to silent treatment as if you dont exist.

I think the difference is, with the no contact thing, at the break up point, they say that is what they are doing and why. With silence treatment that is missing.

With the “lets be friends” comment, it’s either of:
i) a total lie which they know, to make it easier and less guilt for them,
ii) genuinely said and just not really ever acted on,
iii) genuinely said and leaving the door open, and most likely acted on many years or months later
- very hard to know when you are prevented from talking.

I think the point here is really that two rational reasonable adults talk, good or bad chat, they just talk.

e.g. a guy friend of mine broke up with his g/f about 4 months back. He told he they should not be in touch to have space, and made it clear it was the no contact thing, for both. After about a month end just texts her to make sure she is ok. Then last week he met up with her, to make sure she was ok. He broke up with her. i.e. it’s the decent thing to do, make sure the person is ok and treating them as if they exist.

To be honest though, the difference is really when you tie it up with other behaviours. I realise it was partly silent when togethe, plus a fair amount of other signs, of controlling actions, e.g. withholding affection when I said no to something, bit like punishing me, overreactions to things, inability to compromise or deal with conflict in a rational way you’d expect two adults who love each other to do, etc.

I really really did wish it was just a “no contact” thing after a break up. Does that mean everyone couple that break up never ever see their former partner and best friend ever again? I doubt that.

For me, as I can only speak for me, it’s the combination of other things plus the no contact that my gut feel is telling me it’s been controlling behaviour. Not on the levels of some people here, but I know he had issues with his ex before me as he told me somethings where he had been violent but blamed her saying he only did it in self defence, which I fell for! And I’ve never been this traumatised by breaking up with someone before, and I just had many unanswered questions in my situation, things that I didnt understand.

Now having read the book,
“Why Does He Do That?
Inside the minds of angry and controlling men”
- unfortunately it fits one of the character types pretty exactly. I really wish it didnt, because I dont like labelling him with that tag, because after all I dated and fell for him, so it is a reflection on me too.

Your observation on men and woman posting here, I think reflects who it mostly affects, i.e. it affects mostly women, with the silent treatment by men, because by nature women generally like to chat. So the odds are just that way. Likewise, not many posting if all about same sex couples, I’m sure they have the same issues, but just percentages are less.

Can anyone else comment on the “no contact” thing after a break up and whether it is silent treatment in a way or not. How to differentiate really between it. Hard to know for sure when you’re in the middle of it. I think personally as I say above, it’s the mixture of behavioural issues, and with it happening to a past ex, I know it then cant be her, and so must be him, or I’d not have some of the issues I’d had while with him.

Reply

in limbo 12 July 2010 at 6:53 am Permalink

Regarding the difference between no contact and silent treatment, because I’ve experienced both. In my case, there’s an extreme difference between the two. However, whether or not you live in the same town, work together, or not, are major factors.

My ex and I broke up very amicably, as breakups go. We decided to remain friends. We were living several hours apart at this point, so friendship consisted of a few emails, a few phone calls, a couple of visits in person. But I found that I just couldn’t get over him. It was too painful for me to see him in person, knowing that I wanted him and he didn’t want me. So I decided, thanks to the advice of a good friend, that I just had to go cold turkey. I talked to my ex about it and we parted ways. Him to his city, me to mine. I think, I hope, the air between us remained amicable. It was never an aggressive, I hate your guts thing. More of an, I’m sorry, but I just can’t be friends with you because it’s too hard on me to see you in person.

With the silent treatment that I’ve experienced, it was very much active and aggressive. People I see regularly, because they’re my neighbors, because it’s a small town, because I work with them. Yes, the main difference is that one broken relationship had each person in different cities and the other in the same city. However, if this silent treatment relationship had just gone the no contact route, I imagine what would’ve happened would be that my friend would come up to me, tell me to my face that, sadly, we can’t be friends any more, and that’d be the end of it. I’d be hurt, I’d be sad, but I’d get over it. Instead, it didn’t end there. In addition to no longer hanging out as friends, these people would not acknowledge my existence if I was passing on the street or at work.

With no contact, cold turkey, can’t be friends post-breakup, I think it’s amicable. Both parties discuss it, establish that that is what’s happening. and then you both go off to live your separate lives. No one’s out to make the other person’s life miserable. If you pass each other on the street, you might nod or say hi. If you work together, you might be civil, still discuss work-related matters. You just don’t hang out any more.

With shunning, there’s a vicious edge to it. And, at least in my experience, it involves multiple people (you get your buddies to shun them to). You’re deciding to treat someone worse than a stranger. Because you might nod or say hi to a stranger, or at least have body language that reflects that you’re reacting to someone being there. With silent treatment, they’re acting like you don’t even exist. No response to words you say. No reaction. look right past you as if you’re not there. In my experience, it’s an aggressive and blatant act of not acknowledging someone’s existence. perhaps without explanation. It’s not only, “I’m not going to see you again”, it’s, “I’m going to punish you too, you’re not even worth recognizing”.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 10:46 am Permalink

Also, I think one comment character thing is this person is highly self centered, where they show no compassion or empathy to consider your side of it.

They make most of the decisions during the relationship. I remember telling him to not make the decisions fo both of us, I have feelings too. But they do and with silent treatment it’s like when they decide it will be ok for you to talk to them again, only then will they acknowledge you and allow it.

If it was really just no contact after a break up, surely when you try to contact someone, they can say, “we need to not be in touch for a bit or at all, I wish you well”, or similar, it’s really not that hard to do that. And so not just ignore it and say nothing. That is the difference in silent treatment control and no contact. One is humane, the other just mean.

Reply

Debra 29 January 2010 at 8:27 pm Permalink

Good to get a man’s perspective Paul.
The difference betw. silent treatment and no contact, say, after a breakup, is the act of silence in ”the treatment” is inflicted deliberately to harm another person. It’s ostracism and can be vicious.
When couples — or anyone — decide to cool it for awhile and avoid contact, there’s mutual understanding and respect. No one is trying to outdo the other or hurt or manipulate them.
Whenever I need more insight, I go back to the top of this site where it says the silent treatment affects the part of the brain called the anterior cingulate cortex, which registers pain.
It’s been awhile and I’m still blown away at how much my ex bf nearly destroyed me simply by not taking my calls or talking to me when communication and an attempt to save the relationship mattered the most. He had gained my love and trust ONLY to be able to stomp on it all and get a warped pleasure in doing so.

Enough time has passed that I don’t think about it too much anymore, I don’t look for his call and I even erased him on my cell. Time to move on.

As for “obsession” I think sometimes, until we strike a healthy balance in our hearts and minds again, we may dwell on a person too much. That’s natural and part of the grieving process. The key is at some pt. gathering your self-esteem and strength again and saying enough is enough, he or she is not worth it.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 9:14 pm Permalink

Hi Debra/Paul

There is one other reason too, sometimes he can’t handle contact with you so he decides not to make any. So he does what he thinks is best for him, i.e. very self centred.

And for some reason he lacks compassion and empathy to think of your feelings. I think this is a problem with such people, they just dont feel your pain, for some reason, it’s missing in their makeup. As a result they do what they do. I dont think it’s always intentional even, just twisted thinking on their part sadly.

Reply

Debra 29 January 2010 at 9:23 pm Permalink

You make a good point Sue.
Lack of compassion and lack of empathy are two defining characteristics of many pathologies, including anti-social personality disorder, narcissism, schizophrenia, sociopaths and Asperger’s Syndrome (a high functioning autism).
As you say, it’s ”missing in their makeup.”
They say sociopaths also lack a conscience, which I suppose makes them capable of violating people and laws as some do. People who know my exbf and who knew him long before I did warn me he is a sociopath. They said he’s good at fooling people and being charming, and they always use Ted Bundy as an example. One woman said Ted Bundy even fooled the governor of Florida.
Well, I don’t want to get too paranoid or scare others. But maybe it’s better to be a little spooked now and keep our heads on straight in future dating scenarios than to get mixed up with another cold-blooded manipulator.
Honestly, this site saved my sanity!

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 9:43 pm Permalink

My ex was charming too, he has a very lovely side which is why a woman falls for him, and to many of his friends and work colleagues he is just that.

For my ex, I think it’s simply a personality disorder, one he probably doesnt really realise too much of either.

As example of lack of empathy was when we were together, and he made me cry for something, his first reaction was, “oh you look beautiful when you cry”. Now correct me if I am wrong, but most normal peoples reaction is to hug or comfort them, etc. He just couldnt feel my pain, it was a most bizarre moment, but it was in no way a malicious comment he made. Sad really.

Reply

Sue 29 January 2010 at 9:48 pm Permalink

One other point on the matter of no contact or silence after a dating breakup. If a woman gets out prior to getting married, it’s still the same type of man, so the behaviour is the same, as those who had it happen after their marriage breakup. He will do the same silent treatment.

Reply

elleke 31 January 2010 at 4:56 am Permalink

I think we all need to realize that this behavior is ABUSE. The silent one is not hitting you physically but the hurt is just as painful as a physical assault. The answer is to leave the relationship. Draw the line at that much hurt. My husband practiced this method of dealing with conflict for the more than 20 years that I was married to him. He did not seem to think that I was hurt. He said he was protecting himself, which is what he did as a child when his stepfather overwhelmed him. To him it was natural behavor when he was emotionally challenged. I am sure he felt protected but he never grew past the 9-year old who first dealt with anger this way. Even when told how much his behavior hurt, he did not believe it. Even treating him to some of his own behavior did not make a difference. To him the self-preservation was most important. He kept control over the situation by pushing me away. He did not recognize that his behavior was abusive. So sad because he could have grown into a very unique person. Despite his deep emotional wound, I could not allow him to keep hurting me. Licking his wound is his job. Nothing I could do made a difference. Leaving him took the pressure off both of us; now he lives with a sibling who behaves in much the same way he does. But he does not feel as threatened, so the fallout is less for him. He still has not solved his problem, and I don’t think he will. I think there are other people who have other reasons for the silent treatment, such as deliberate emotional devastation, or just being a spoiled infant. It is still abuse, no matter their reason. And the only way out of abuse is to leave it behind.

Reply

richard 1 February 2010 at 6:26 am Permalink

hello, my keyboard is broken, plss bear with me. For tthe last 7yrs since I was given div papers, my kids who are now between 16 and 26 have been estrangd frm me. cold. hostile. i have beeen nexcluded frrom graduatns, weddings, holidayss…thhe ensuing depression landed me iin hspital and after a year, losiing my job. ive triied evverythining can think of…always be tthere for vistatin, carrdss, calls, emails, but i cannot do anythiing rght fr tthem. ii gve 65% of myy incme for child support andn live in a one room apt but if i even nhave a dime for a giift, thheyy are angry taht ii have any mmoney to buyy tthem a giifft…teyy just say, giive methe mneyy and not the gft…orr…why dont you sell yourr apt and give me tthe mmooney…my guesss is thatt thy are braiinwashed by x thhat i have no othher value tthan mooneyyy. i never hear frm m mtthem on fatherr day, birrthday , any day, even nafterr years of calls, emails once a week, cards. i was nott even mentiionoed iin my ydaughters wedding inviittaton. like i never exiisted..jusst cut outt from their lives..annd it taken ttoll on mmy hhealth…so…after 7yrs…i think ii ihavve to just cutt it off…she wins…shhe has the hhuossee, kiids and thhey want nothhining to doo with me…

my questionn….shhouldd i send a final mail to tlll tthem why i stop conttacts.,,wishh them the bessst and tthen trryy to havea new lfe..orr…just stop the weeksly and stiill snd bday carrds…

wnever i rrread the new age books…i gett all lovey dovvy and want t ofrrgive and forget but everyy ytiim i wrrite and geet n o resspnnse and anotther bday passes of mmin and not onee willl call orr on fatthers day…i get upset and i am sick off it…

ii need to oheeal and see if ii can heal mmy yhheart and otthehr stuff in my body ythahtt is falling apart acc t myy doc…

i dononnt even want to tell people thhag i have kds any mmre…obviiously they have been prrgrammed thatt thhey have no fatherr.

thank yuo
Riicharrd

Reply

Lolana 4 February 2010 at 3:58 am Permalink

Gosh Richard I’m so sorry. This is incredibly cruel. It sounds like they are brainwashed by their mother. When I was young my parents had such control over what I thought of people, because they were very opinionated. They did not respect my grandmother, who really loved me, and I absorbed that disrespect. I will regret that to the day I died, as my grandmother was a wonderful woman who loved us a lot, and without her, I would not have grown up knowing how worthy I was of love and care.

Your family is poisonous to you this way, if you are only meaningful to them for money, or for what they can get from you. But the person above who said don’t be with people if to you, they are a priority but to them you are only an option.

I have gotten rid of those people in my life over the past five years or so and I am so much happier, I cannot tell you. It hurts like hell to break off with family members, people I thought I would grow old knowing. I am much happier knowing that I will not be reaching out so they can reject me again.

When you reach out and they reject, it does give them power over you. If it makes you feel better, maybe you should tell them. If you are giving them money and they treat you like this, document it, go back to court. There is no reason anyone should have to have their emotions raped like this.

Reply
Sue 4 February 2010 at 10:02 am Permalink

Hi Richard

I think that quote I put on earlier by Einstein is so true, it’s in the post below. I think I will print it out myself and stick it on my mirror I use first thing each morning for awhile now at least as a real reminder. Plus put some affirmations, like on post it notes, e.g. “I am a good person”, ones relevant to you. Here are some from a book I’ve read:

“I am now discovering the new, assertive me”
“I make wise choices and have good judgement”
“I am calm, relaxed and peaceful”
“I am in charge of my life and make wise decisions”
“I am free to do as I please”
“I love and accept myself completely”
“My thoughts and feelings are important”
“I trust my instincts and always act accordingly”
“I am taking responsibility for my family’s well being”
“I am attracting healthy, loving relationships”
“I only spend time with people who are caring and supportive”

Maybe the learning and healing here for many of us is to work out who in our lives treats us as a priority and put your efforts into those relations, then you will have more success and it then will be reciprocated back. Identify these people and really values these connections.

Those who treat you as an option, identify them and keep them at arms length and recognise their real motive. Like in the film, “He’s just not into you”, when the Gigi character realised many of the men in her failed relations were just there to use her for other things, e.g. for lifts, for accommodation for a bit, for money, etc etc. Here’s the family in your life are just taking your financial support at this point in time.

Work out which people in your life are givers or takers….. do they add to your life positively or negatively, or neutral. How are they making you feel? Literally you can do a list of all people in your life you know and identify who falls where. Then you act accordingly. Remove your efforts from those you now see as negatively impacting your life, etc. Put your efforts to those you identify as positive in your life. Watch the results.

If you do this, you will start getting things back together positively for you. Put yourself first now, your needs first, that’s the first step. You have been quite unselfish, caring, etc and tried to put others first. They take advantage of your nice and good nature too, but also only when you allow it. Start now and protect yourself by looking after yourself first. Please do it now, from now at least, you must stop this sprial by taking control.

I’d suggest you do a formal letter via a lawyer to your kids, so its documented and you know they have them been told that you will always be there for them when they are ready to acknowledge you correctly, should they wish to get in touch with you, etc etc, that you’ve passed them cards, and received no response, etc. But then leave it at that.

I’d really not explain you are going silent formally, let them wonder what happened to you. Take back control, dont give the ex the courtesy of telling her what you are doing either. Let them wonder! After that dont waste another moment of your time and energy on them who have shut you out, put that energy inward to heal yourself, your life, that is in your control. You have to love and respect yourself first in order to go forward and heal here now.

I hope this helps and isnt too long winded!

Reply

Sue 1 February 2010 at 12:15 pm Permalink

Hi

I found this quote:
Never make someone your priority when they only make you their option.
Never waste time on someone not willing to waste or share time with you.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Reply

elleke 1 February 2010 at 11:29 pm Permalink

Oh, how I feel for you. If you are not sure what the motivation is behind your children’s behavior, it does not seem they would be willing to tell you since they only talk to you when they want money. I would think that despite the hurt it will cause you, the best answer is to let them alone. I read somewhere that the silent treatment is a “withdrawal of love,” but I think it is much more than that. It is a cowardly (passive-aggressive) way of aggression over others. As long as the person inflicting the silent treatment thinks it is working, they will continue the behavior. If you leave your inflictors alone and no longer deal with them (unless you still have to pay child support on the younger ones), you can deal with your hurt without even hoping for their input. This is the hardest thing you will ever do and you may never get over loving them. You and your well being are just as important as their pettiness. They get more out of inflicting pain than they do out of mature behavior.
I guess I would say that by letting them go you are taking control of the situation. (I might suggest that a date in court with documented proof of their behavior to alter the child support agreement might make a difference in your financial outlook, if not your emotional state. I don’t know if it is too much to hope for that this would get your children thinking about their behavior. Possibly they would look at is as vindictive on your part, not an unexpected view point. At least protect yourself. And DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.)

When asked why people did the things they do, Dr. Phil said, “because they can.”

(My sister used to practice this method of dealing with others. She told me it drove them “nuts.” She was right. I asked her if she wanted the problem solved or if she wanted others nuts. Since I have asked her that I cannot think of an instance where she has done it again.)

Reply

Debra 3 February 2010 at 8:46 pm Permalink

Does anyone find it gets easier and easier to ignore someone who makes it their life’s goal to ignore you and others? The squeaky wheel gets the oil, and silence and no attempt to communicate yields. When you don’t attempt to communicate or relate with others, you get your way. They ignore and forget you. Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face. It really is a sick stupid game that I don’t get because I happen to like people and I like engaging in my world. Even if someone has a beef with me, I prefer they tell me so than to sit and stew. How stupid.

Reply

Rene 7 March 2010 at 10:05 pm Permalink

I am finding it easier to accept the silent treatment punitive abuse. It is not as painful to have my way i.e. to not tolerate abuse and let the other person have their way which is to control via treatment as if I were dead. I am getting stronger to let the person go knowing he/she killed the relationship. It is still hard to accept the abuser wants the relationship on his/her terms and be punitive if I say no to abuse. I ralized when I used to call or write the person that was like begging like a dog.

Reply

Sue 3 February 2010 at 9:23 pm Permalink

Welcome Richard, sorry to hear you’ve been through such a tough time. I suggest make the child support payments you have to by standing order. Document what is needed as mentioned by Elleke above, and maybe get a formal legal letter/message documented and passed to your kids.

For the silent treatment, each time you seek to make contact, it gives them a chance to reject you. Take back control by totally dropping contact with them – all contact. Sadly make a decision to not contact them at all. If when the kids grow up properly and they seek you out, then do all those birthday things, etc, but until they treat you like you exist dont play that game.

Then take back control of your life; as Debra said on an earlier post:
“No matter how bad you feel, Get up, Dress up and Show up.
Don’t lay in bed dwelling on this.”
& What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

And….. you need to focus on you, heal yourself, be a bit more selfish, less nice to them who treat you like you dont exist, and fix, heal and get busy repairing your life. When you focus on that and start getting busy with that, you can start on the upward spiral.

Do things that are in your control, and that is focussing on you.

I wish you well.

Reply

Sue 5 February 2010 at 12:50 am Permalink

Message to Ken Savage website, just want to say this is a fab site, and literally a life-saver. Thank you for this service, it has saved my sanity from sharing views with others.

Reply

David 14 February 2010 at 12:09 am Permalink

Thank you all from me as well.

I’m not shy about explaining a work situation that I’m in but to understand it would require a bit of detail about how I behaved and how she behaved/is behaving.

If it wasn’t for what I’ve read on here my anterior cingulate cortex would be having a tough time of it.

I’ve also found good stuff in an interpretation by Sharon Lebell of Epictetus’s The Art of Living.

Reply

Sue 5 February 2010 at 1:11 am Permalink

All, Another book recommendation:
“In Sheeps Clothing – understanding and dealing with manipulative people” by George K. Simon.

It’s a very thin book! About 1cm, a bit hard to get going, but once you do has lots of insightful things to say. It’s aimed at work relations, parent child/family, personal relations, etc.

Here are some key things to share to you all:
“Selective inattention”/Silent treatment
- “When a person is deliberately tuning you out, there is no point in wasting your breath.”
- “When they stop resisting (fighting) and pay attention, you have a chance to be heard.”

On how to become a better judge of character:
Quoting from book: Anyone wanting to reliably avoid victimization needs to identify the people in their life with aggressive and covertly aggressive personality traits. i.e. to know “if it walks and talks like a duck, then it’s most probably a duck”.

The manner by which they habitually interact with others defines aggressive and covert-aggressive personalities. So if you’re dealing with a person who always pushes to have their way, who always has to “win”, always wants the upper hand, won’t take “no” for an answer, etc., you can safely assume that you’re dealing with a predominantly aggressive personality. If you’re dealing with a person who rarely gives you a straight answer to a straight question, is always making excuses for doing hurtful things, tries to throw you on the defensive and get their way, you can assume you’re dealing with a person who, no matter what else he may be, is covertly aggressive.

Reply

Lolana 6 February 2010 at 1:59 am Permalink

I second Sue’s message to Ken Savage. I’m going to link it from my site now. It’s been a really helpful conversation.

Now, if someone can tell me what to do about Citibank raising my interest rate to 30 per cent (after 10 years of paying on time and yes I do have a balance, not proud but I honor my debts) then I’ll be all set.

Seriously, though, bank mafia aside, you gotta take care of your heart, and this site really has helped with that. Cause if you can’t take care of your heart, other things get messed up in the mix.

to all ya’ll who are struggling with relationships with people who don’t reciprocate, the best thing to do is really to get away. I have tried literally everything else in my arsenal of things to do to handle conflict. If another person won’t acknowledge your reality and makes fun of you or tries to make you think you’re crazy, it’s just gotta be goodbye. No dialogue is possible with someone who can’t hear you.

I like those quotes you listed too Sue, thanks

Reply

Debra 6 February 2010 at 5:56 pm Permalink

Wow, Sue, you are so on the mark! Your posts have been very helpful. I’m so glad to see others, too, gaining insight and sharing…we all know it’s so hard to let go of someone we care about, how when we’re in that awful state, we just don’t want to hear the truth…we’d rather get hurt. I know I did. Only with time, did I finally gain perspective and realize I was slowly killing myself and becoming a willing victim. My life may not be great right now, but there’s sanity and I’m happier even if I’m lonely.
Sue, I like the book entries you give. Einstein’s definition of insanity…doing the same thing over and over and expecting diff. results…is right on target too.
You all have helped me alot, thank you.
I still feel lonely and I even replay my past relationship in my head, like if I had seen this early warning sign or that, or if I had only responded differently, maybe his psycho side never would have emerged…maybe that “nice guy” persona he presented would have ”stuck” .. NOT.
It hurts to face the truth esp. when you think how hard it is to meet someone. We all want true love and no one wants to be lonely…but still…an abusive partner is not the way to go.
Debbie

Reply

Sue 6 February 2010 at 7:05 pm Permalink

Thank you. Likewise, I want to thank you Debra, plus many of the other posters here, you have helped me a lot a few weeks back, especially the comments:
“No matter how bad you feel, Get up, Dress up and Show up.
Don’t lay in bed dwelling on this.”
& What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

It’s given me the kick up the backside to stop moping, stop in my misery, and to get going. So I’m done with the misery, and into the “self help phase”, so as I read any good books or comments I’ll post them here, if they are not you wont hear about it.

Sharing most definitely helps, yes, even if you get the sense you are not alone, to rationalise some of these crazy behaviours from others and how they impact to us, and then trying to work out how best to deal with things to heal and move forward and move on.

I’ve just read another book called “I can mend your broken heart” by Paul McKenna & Hugh Willbourn. Not sure if you know of Paul McKenna, he’s well known in the UK (which is where I am) as a hypnotherapist, therapist and a life coach. I’m normally a bit sceptical about these types of things, and in the book it has various techniques, e.g. tapping on about 10 pressure points in a sequence when thinking of your worst pain moment, and then by then end it reduces, etc.

Me – I am very sceptical, but I did it and it worked! It reduced using a scale of 1-10 method, then it suggests repeating it to get a better result. So I did and it went from 10 to 0, no joke, I am shocked! It works by re-programming your brain for all the negative images, emotions/feelings, thoughts we have about the scenarios causing our pain. How to deal with them when they crop up or flash back at any point too, and bizarrely I actually feel it’s hugely helped, and is definitely working for me.

Another is when you visualise your ex for anything, create a “whiteout” like a flash photo with the brightness on full to white out their face and the photo essentially. Or do the same if you see them with any new partner too, “white out” the picture from your mind. This is a very easy technique to do, and gets easier the more you do it. You realise how your mind thinks of the ex then too, and you are literally stopping yourself and re-programming your brain to “white out” the ex. It helps, as you need to focus on the future not the past.

So I suggest you look into it Debra, it’s for repairing feelings after a broken personal relationship primarily, but I guess it could work for other situations but is not really aimed at that.

Reply

richard 7 February 2010 at 7:23 am Permalink

so, after 7 years, i have resolved to stop contacting after reading many of the posts here. cant say that i feel much…yea i feel sad of course…resigned…very strange in that i dont even feel that i know my own children..somehow though, seven years of calling with no answer, writing with no answer, seeing an invitation to my daughters wedding with no mention of me, no invites to graduations or bdays, no replies to emails, text msgs..whatever bonds i had, seem to be broken…i dont even know if i care anymore…i just hope i have enough left within myself to live a better life, to move forward and stop mourning the past and the present and the future that appears to be without my kids as well. i dont know if i do because the last 7yrs has really sucked the life out of me…it will be very hard to do a rocky balboa and make a come back…but im doing my best to focus on myself cause i need me, thats all i got now with no family left…so im eating healthier, working out, trying to get in better shape, concentrate on going back to school, business and thinking about something other than my children. thank you for your comments and care. it is meaningful because i did not realize that there are other people experiencing the same from their families.

Reply

Lolana 23 February 2010 at 12:53 am Permalink

Richard, I feel better. For not putting things out, because the silence that came after my putting myself out toward them became just unbearable. I found myself getting severely depressed and even sick.

It’s like a hangover. I pay dearly for any attention I give them or show them. I cannot afford the price anymore. The hangover is too bad. The price is too high. I am convinced that continuing on a path of not being appreciated is toxic to the body and soul.

It’s much better to get back from people and those who give back are the only ones I spend my attention on. It is much better this way.

Reply
- Venus 23 February 2010 at 4:20 pm Permalink
  
  Lolana, I totally agree with you here about it beign toxic to the soul and body. There is absolutely no disputing that this causes both psychological as well as physical damage to the person on the receiving end. There were so many nights when I was still in my marital home where I just could not sleep and I’d be like a walking zombie at work the next day, completely devoid/numb of any feeling/emotion other than turmoil and emptiness. Now my Hub is doing marriage counselling with me and says he wants to reconcile but I have seen zero changes. He skipped out on my bday party saying he had no funds, later said he was coming and then said he couldn’t find where I was, ended up going out with his friends. It’s been 5 months now *separated*. I want things to get better but when?
  
  Reply
Rene 7 March 2010 at 10:32 pm Permalink

Richard,
I have four adult children. Their father pulled evry trick in the book to destroy me to them to control his fictional image.
It is so painful to send a gift, call or write and wait getting deadly silence. I started doing and giving to others seeking sescondary sources given the offspring situation. It is not ideal and won’t replace the destruction with one’s own children. However it does feel so much better to do something like donate a winter coat for a stranger and get an acknoweledgement. there is peace of mind to know giving to a stranger won’t be taken, twisted and ussed against you either at a later date. Or you won’t be degraded to others for being a sucker or for caring which is inhumane too.

My oldest daughter contacted me at a point to tell me she was having a baby. I took that as a sign she wanted to reconnect and reconcile. We exchanged brief emails for several months. I bought and sent gifts for her pregnancy and layette items. Then I see on Facebook photos of her titled “friends and family” at the baby shower. So although she did let me know my gifts arrived I won’t ever get invited to “the party”. Last year I helped a young coworker to have a wedding and since then she and her family treat me more as family then I’ve ever been treated before. If I was sick near strangers would give me a ride to a hospital. My kids probably would ignore my call and leave me for dead. The situation only changed a tiny bit to the better when their father died.

Most of the time I carry this empty heart of overwhelming grief to have losst my children, a future with their spouses and future grandchildren. Heh..their dad wanted all and everything and “nothing” for me. He promised me he’d make sure I had “no familY”. It’s the only promise he ever kept.

Reply

Sue 7 February 2010 at 5:54 pm Permalink

Hi Richard,

Yes that is good to hear and ues 100% focus on you, and start over to rebuild you. Put all the stuff about your kids in a box in the back of your head. Rebuild your life, but this time you will be stronger and wiser. When you get yourself going and together, in the future, you never know they may get curious and look you up (but dont hold hope of this). The best thing I suggest, is get busy with things in your control, i.e. your life, forget them all, and if they show up then deal with it then, in the meantime rebuild and grow to be a better and wiser person.

At least within you, you know you’ve done the right thing. Put your efforts towards those things you have control over, then your efforts will be rewarded.

All the best, and keep posting the up dates on your progress or any queries, we’re cheering you on, and understand what you have been through.

Reply

Bianca 9 February 2010 at 6:18 pm Permalink

Debrah, thank you for the response. Yes I contact him about once or twice a month. He just ignores me. He probably thinks I’m insane. I told him that I would much rather he tell me to F*ck off than this play this insufferable game with me.

I do want to address the issue of whether or not it should be considered silent treatment if it is after a break up. I have had this conflict myself. After our argument (which was 100% his fault. He was making plans and sabataging them and expressing typical PA behavior) I finally hit my breaking poit and told him”no hard feelings” and “best of luck”. Well I was hurt and furious with him, so after a few days I cooled down and thought maybe I over reacted. I contacted him and he responded ” I thought you weren’t talking to me” After that he never spoke to me again. He would read my emails over and over but purpously avoid me. So maybe in his mind, I broke up with him and he just wanted a clean break??? But if that is the case I think he would have at least responded to me in at least some way. This man has very very low esteem and I feel like maybe he is trying to hurt me. Otherwise why put such an effort into pretending I wasn’t even born? It’s much easier to just respond or at least BS someone. I read Living with The Passive Aggressive Male front to back and he exhibited about 9 out of ten of those traits. The auther says that many PA men will sulk and withdraw form the relationship when they are called out for their behavior. The last text I sent read “When you are ready to open up and talk I will be here no matter how long it takes” I wanted him to know that I wasn’t going be bitch about it, which is probably what he is expecting….

Reply

Sue 9 February 2010 at 7:26 pm Permalink

Question for those who married one of these silent types:

- if you knew what you have now realised about his/her behaviour before you were married, would you still have married him/her?

Reply

Sue 10 February 2010 at 10:10 am Permalink

Interesting post on wikipedia about psychological manipulation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

Spot the signs of a manipulator, also, why we end up of the end of it, what in us has allowed this too, when others don’t put up with it. e.g. being emotionally caring & compassionate, etc.

Knowledge is power!

Reply

Debra 11 February 2010 at 5:36 pm Permalink

Bianca, it sounds like he’s punishing you for words you uttered in anger. It’s a form of control. You realized you didn’t mean them at the time, attempted to make amends, but he’s giving it back to you. He’s putting the screws in you for daring to speak out. If he cared about you, he would have cooled off too and realized how much you mean to him instead of continuingt the power game, don’t you think? It sounds to me like he’s pissed off that you even dared to challenge his actions. Are you really going to be willing to speak to him no matter how long it takes him to respond? I think you’re setting yourself up for more rejection, and you’re enabling him to continue his behavior. What I don’t understand is if he did this repetitively or if it’s an isolated case. If it’s a pattern, I’d give him a deadline and then stick to it.You can’t live like this, dependent on his whim with the threat of him backing out and going silent whenever he wants.
And Sue, you sound so much better these days, you go girl!
Debbie

Reply

Bianca 15 February 2010 at 4:26 pm Permalink

Yep, you’re absolutely right. I feel like such a wimp waiting on him to speak to me again: it’s totally unlike me. I came out of a traumatic affair a couple years ago and I think I lost my sense of confidence after the ordeal ended. I’m only 25 but I prefer to date older men because I feel I have more in common with them. Unfortunately, the older they are the harder it is for them to change. Right now I have no desire to make any contact….but I know in a month or so my feelings will change where I will get antsy again and try to illicit a response from; even if it is a vehement one. It’s really is an unhealthy cycle and I am aware of that.

Reply

Bianca 15 February 2010 at 4:35 pm Permalink

Oh and in reference to your question, Debra, regarding whether it is repetitive behavior, I believe since he is 48, and very PA I’m sure he is a master at playing the silent game. He would disappear for a few days and out of no where pop up and ask me if I was mad LOL!!! What the hell? I think it is someone’s way of trying to get the other person to express the anger that they cannot. That way, they look cool. collected and sane while we (the normal people) look nutty. And Sue I did read that link-very interesting, thank you!

Reply

Debra 15 February 2010 at 5:28 pm Permalink

Bianca, take it from an older woman: DON’T try to change a man or w ait for him to change. For that matter, don’t wait for any human being to change, or expect them to. And you’re right about ”the older they are the harder it is for them to change.” People are quite set in their ways by late 40s, and unwilling to change. Besides, how would you like it if someone asked you to change? Do you really think you could transform your personality to meet another person’s standards?

Now if that sounds like doom and gloom, let me add that I am not saying to give up hope in all people. But the only person in the world you can ever change is yourself. You can, however, change the way you perceive other people and how you deal with them.

You can choose to be manipulated or you can nip it in the bud and stand up for yourself and show some respect for yourself. You can learn from your bad experiences and not repeat them. It takes time, but trust me on this, if you respect yourself and don’t allow yourself to be manipulated or disrespected by others, you WILL attract a good man who wants to treat you right. Healthy people attract healthy people.

Waiting for a manipulator to change or to gain insight or even be willing to change can take a lifetime.
Remember when Sue quoted Einstein “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.”

I totally understand having your confidence shattered, it’s happened to me again and again. I was devastated only two months ago and this particular man, now that I look back, was very scary because he played a sick game; he did it SOLELY for the “fun” of watching me fall apart when he pulled the rug out from under me. Now that I look back, he had been setting me up for some time.

Anyway, I’m still nursing my wounds but I do feel stronger each day. And like I said, I was there, I let myself fall in this trap. I had my eyes closed because I wanted a relationship, it felt good (at first) not to be alone. But now I realize it’s better to be alone and healthy than in a sick relationship. So many married men and women have written on this site warning single people to turn around and run away now from anyone who is abusive. I’m going to listen to their advice. They should know.

Reply

Sue 17 February 2010 at 2:36 am Permalink

Question, about respect from such a man, if you do exert your respect with such a person, do you think it can work, or is it just a matter of time, as really they dont change its so embedded in who they are?

Reply
- lolana 24 February 2010 at 3:09 am Permalink
  
  you can exert all the respect you want, but you can’t control whether another person respects you the way you should be respected by a friend, lover, whatever. all you can do is refuse to play along with someone who does not respect you properly, that is all you do have control over.
  
  some people change, some people don’t, but what you really have to look at is their behavior. how they treat you and your feelings is a matter of respect and when they are indifferent to your feelings, that is a bad sign. I can’t go there anymore, if I’m with someone I want them to want to be with me and be interested in me and no bsing around about it. the back and forth stuff is what killed those relationships for me, it was always my fault that things went wrong even if i did not intend for things to go wrong—i was the one who got “punished.” once I stopped allowing “punishment” to have a role in my partnerships I started to just be a lot happier.
  
  People deserve to be treated with respect. I go to my friends and family and relationships for support, not for heartbreak. Sometimes there is both but there has to be a good feeling and a healthy direction and a lack of tension and discomfort. Otherwise it’s no good. Anymore.
  
  I don’t believe what anyone says, only what they do. And at that, what they do when no one else is looking. When it’s down to the nitty gritty, how does a person treat you? Does he or she look you in the eye and give you respect? If so, you’ll know it. If not, you’ll know that too, and then you can decide whether you can continue to do it, if you know you deserve better. At some point you will be sick of it or just pushed in that direction by other events. When I lost my job a few years back I had to face some truths about my family and their support/lack of for what I was going through. After that I just looked elsewhere for understanding and friendship and it is much easier to find it elsewhere, so that is what I do. Are you with me, then be with me, don’t jerk me around. Show me the money. You know? Don’t settle for less. If you don’t see change, don’t hope for it. Try to see the situation realistically, not as you would want to see it ideally. How does it make you feel now? Is it good for you or does it tear you down mentally? Or does it make you happy? What’s the net effect?
  
  Reply

Bianca 15 February 2010 at 6:25 pm Permalink

What I meant by “change” is trying to be a better person. I believe that women change a lot as they get older.I know I am learning new things and changing all of the time. I cannot and would not change my personality but I can change my behavior. But you’re right people never change who they are at the core and waiting for someone to be civil can take forever. I attract some low life kinds of men who “seem” to have things together. Just because someone is good looking and successful doesn’t mean they are stable and it took a while for me to internalize that. I need to have higher standard in men that’s for sure. Knowing how to run when I see the signs of a psycho is the first step. I’m getting there This is very eye opening thank you!

Reply

Deborah 16 February 2010 at 9:09 am Permalink

The best treatment to give to someone you live with that engages in the silent treatment, that i have found works is to carry on as normal and do your upmost to be happy around them. Behave as if you have not noticed they are giving you the cold shoulder, smile, be happy, do things for yourself, go out, put your earphones on and sing, make a joke out of everything and dont take them seriously. Once you do this you take the power back and their silent treament no longer gives them a payoff they are looking for. Instead they live with their own misery!

Its been the hardest lesson i have learned but its worked with my husband. He takes time out now, doesnt speak for a few hours but no longer continues to ostrasize me for days.

I have also packed my life full of things i love to do and do them ragardless of him not being happy that i am no longer chained to the kitchen sink following his list of unspoken rules.

The more confident i become the nicer he is behaving.

Reply

Sue 17 February 2010 at 2:38 am Permalink

That is such a tough way to live together.

Reply

Sue 23 February 2010 at 10:09 am Permalink

Lolana, your words were such great lines…

“That continuing on a path of not being appreciated is toxic to the body and soul.

It’s much better to get back from people and those who give back, are the only ones I spend my attention on.

It is much better this way.”

Reply

Lisa 24 February 2010 at 11:47 pm Permalink

I first posted on here last summer but my threads are too old now to be displayed.

Basically I’d been seeing a guy for 3 months (we’d known each other about 2 years just from talking online then we finally met) and he was great in many ways, but ran hot and cold. It was getting me down; when I was with him and he was in touch regularly, I was on top of the world. When he’d disappear, I just felt depressed and confused.

My previous relationship was long distance over 4 years and I found out he’d been seeing someone else the whole time. On top of that he’d also been unfaithful to the other woman with someone else – what a mess.

My new man knew a bit of this story – I didn’t want to share too much with him, I don’t do sob stories – and he always maintained that his ex of 9 years was the one who was unfaithful to him and that’s why they split up. So I thought I’d found someone who’d also been hurt.

One morning when I’d stayed over at his, he got up to get a drink of water and I reached over to look at the time on his mobile. In that split second I looked at his inbox text messages… and in there were messages from another woman with lots of xxx at the end and ‘miss you’s', plus more messages from an unnamed number saying stuff like ‘but I’m so horny, come over I live at such and such address..’

I felt sick. It had happened again. Long story short, I confronted him and felt more embarrassed for having invaded his privacy than anything else. He was sorry, gentle, apologetic, trying to explain it wasn’t what I thought, that he was wrong to stay in touch with her etc. He comforted me saying it would all be ok and I shouldn’t worry.

Then as soon as I left, he didn’t speak to me. I sent him just one text message that same day and he ignored me. A week later I tried another message and this time he replied. Full of scorn and contempt, sarcasm and name calling (‘bunny boiler’). It cut me to the core. I could hardly catch my breath. And after that torrent of contempt and making fun of me (‘you’ve been reclassed as a bunny boiler. But don’t go stringing yourself up or hacking an arm off, you’re still ok for a bird’) I never heard from him again. That was July 2009.

Just before new year, he happened to be at a retail park just half a mile from my house (he lives over 20 miles away) and I couldn’t believe it was him. I pretended not to have seen him because I couldn’t trust how he would be with me. We were in the same shop and in the corner of my eye, I realised he was heading over to me but I froze and couldn’t look up. He came so close to me I could have touched him and he was talking very loud to his little boy so I’d hear him and look up. But he didn’t say hello. He just wanted me to know he was there, get me to look up and see him.

It kind if scared me in one way. But then I thought maybe he was waiting for me to make the first move to talk, had I looked up. A few days later I sent him a casual text just asking if that really was him and was he a shopping convert these days. He never replied but I took the chance.

No matter what I read, how many self help books I go through, I can’t help but feel it was all my fault. Obviously what I did was so bad that he can’t bear to speak to me, and heavens knows what he would have said or done had he got me to notice him in that shop.

The silent treatment has done enormous damage. It should have worn off by now (and maybe seeing him at Christmas didn’t help). I feel ashamed, small and worthless even though logically I know I shouldn’t. I’m not a ‘bunny boiler’. I wish my gut hadn’t told me to check his phone rather than believe him when he said I was ”the only one”. I’m still ashamed for having checked his phone and I apologised to him for that. But even though we got along like best friends, laughed and talked for hours.. he just deleted me from his life like I was nothing. And that stays with me.

If he’d just said hello to me in that shop. Just a hello, no more. He must really hate me and that’s terrifying.

Reply

Sue 7 March 2010 at 8:59 am Permalink

Hi Lisa, Welcome back. Sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. I totally understand. It is mental torture the silent treatment behaviour, but they know and they dont care. It is controlling behaviour. But it hurts because to go from loving someone to treating them as if they dont exist on the planet is very harsh.

It’s the way these types deal with it, you no longer serve a purpose for them so they abandon you, and they do it fully. They dont appear to have shame, empathy and compassion, not the ability to consider your feelings.

It’s a real an immature and disrespectful way of behaving. I havent seen my ex for just over a year now. For all he knows I could be dead, he doesnt care. And precisely, sadly because we are compassionate, do care, and have empathy you are left feeling as you do. It’s simply a mean thing to do to someone, let alone someone who was so trusting and close to you.

But these types care only for their own emotions. If you look at the situation again, you will see just how things were done, but for their own benefit.

Count yourself lucky it was 3 months and pleade try not to spend more time on thoughts about this man, I know it’s hard. For me, it’s been 4 years that I thought I knew him.

Dont contact this man who cant have the decency to respond to you. Put your efforts towards those who are present in your life.

Go find a man who knows how to behaviour better, and be more respectful of you. You resally do deserve much much better. But next time watch out for the signs, the unspoken ones are more important, and remember it’s only the actions that count, no matter what they say. It’s the actions that count.

Take care of yourself too. Do something fun for yourself, but yourself a treat to cheer you up.

How are you doing now it’s March 2010?

Reply
- Sue 7 March 2010 at 9:29 am Permalink
  
  I should add, I have had some really bad days, and relapse days too. You know when you just miss them so much. But really, you have to then snap yourself out of it and realise how they were was not healthy and disrespectful.
  
  You need to be with someone respectful. It will take a certain type and a lot of effort on their part to be with someone like this who manipulates and for it to work well.
  
  Go enjoy yourself, set your boundaries, stick to your ideal of what you want, e.g. not doing a long distance thing, and its very important to watch for the just the actions and also the unspoken signs. They speak volumes! Also anything your gut feeling tells you, just really try to listen to it. It will protect you correctly, learn to listen to it, so there was a reason it told you to look at the phone, dont let him blame you in any way, when he was at fault, that is classic manipulative behaviour, making you feel bad to apologise to him, it’s controlling.
  
  Remember: all that glitters is not gold.
  
  Check that wikipedia link I posted earlier, it has a fab list of signs to watch for, e.g. lying by omission, etc. Learn from the other posters here too, the advice is invaluable, it has certainly helped me understand that actually I was not the problem. But I was dealing with that type of personality, of which I am not, so what happened occurred, and they were the cause of most of that, no matter what they want you to believe.
  
  And initially I thought they may be in denial or not realise their actions, but no, that is me making excuses for him, he knows how to manipulate, he’s probably learnt it from younger and used it all along the way. It worked for him before, and sadly it’s ingrained behaviour now. You cant change others, nor should you wish to.
  
  As you are not married to him, or with kids by him, feel that you had a lucky escape from such a person, and go treat yourself, you are a valuable person, be happy, be georgeous, and go find a man who will love and respect you in the correct way you deserve.
  
  I wish you well.
  
  Reply

Elleke 25 February 2010 at 5:52 pm Permalink

I like that phrase, Lolana. “jerk around.” Living with the silent treatment is being jerked around perpetually. Impossibly hard to live with not knowing where you stand and having the “rules” change continually. No wonder the “punishment” does a real number on the sense of self.

Reply

Sue 7 March 2010 at 9:00 am Permalink

Hi, How is everyone doing? It’s been a bit quiet on this site recently, hopefully we’re all realising, and now healing.

Reply

Richard 8 March 2010 at 7:12 am Permalink

First, Thank you to all of you have commented on my situation and made suggestions. I had no expectation for that,

Second, I am listening. I know I have to focus on myself and get healthier for me cause I only have me now, as has been for the last 7 years. I admit I am nervous, about 6 months ago I had to go to the ER and realize that I have no one to help in case of any emergency…so I am just shaking I suppose. I think it might be too late, cause i feel I cannot hold on to feeling strong and healthy.

I guess that leads to my next thought, from the comment that Rene made, how her daughter told of her having a kid, eventually sending a gift and then seeing pictures of a celebration which did not include her.

I just experienced this exact scenario. My daughter had a 2nd baby. The first time, on a days notice I traveled overseas to be there and brought a cadillac of baby carriages for the baby. I tried so hard. I was there for a week. After being with them for a week, and most of that time, my daughter had nothing to say to me, i spent most of the time with my son in law, after paying for my trip, the carriage, food for them , food for a party for them, carrying chairs for the party blocks and blocks, making speeches about how wonderful they are, after all that effort, from the day I left them 2 years ago, was the last time I heard from them until this next birth.

They informed me of my new grandson by email, not even a phone call. and in an email addressed to 17 other people, most of whom I did not even know. They are religious, very religious, talk about God all the time, Thank God this, and Thank God that, Thank God for a blue sky and Thank God for a baby and Thank God for the cake and Thank God for waking up but somehow they forget to Thank God for their father. So as the grandfather, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to be at the naming party of my grandson, but,

I was not invited to the naming party.

I have not been invited to see my first grandson since I last saw him overseas over 2yrs ago.

I was not invited to see him when they visited New York for his birthday last year in 2009 to have fun with my x who no doubt is relishing every moment of my torment.

I have not been invited to visit them in Houston for close to 2yrs now.

I receive no calls on father’s day, my birthday, any holiday, anytime so I can speak with my grandson.

I heard through the grapevine that a permission from a ‘religious’ figure was given to exlude me from my grandchildren.

Being included on an email is not being included in the life of my grandchildren.

but they included me on the email…wow…how great , to be included on an email like im a friend from high school.

so , at first , i was going to write, how good the kids look and let me know when i can see them.

then, i heard from my in law ( son in laws mother who from the time she met my x has consistently said that my x is a cold monster and has brainwashed my kids against me) that my x went to the naming party in houston and was on the way again there this last thursday.

so, i was thinking about it. Why should I continue this charade? and pretend as if I am so happy and proud of them when I think they are brainwashed and suck for excluding me. I know my x is behind it but why should I REWARD their shitty behavior with a gift for my new grandson? why should I reward this behavior with a feigned happiness? why should i give anything? Im hurt! damn it.

so, in response to the email, i just sent back to my daughter and son in law.

“I cannot tell you how painful it is to be excluded. I am very disappointed”

I heard back from my son in law in about 45 seconds, usually I hear back from an email in 6 months or longer.

He wrote:

“I dont undersatand. You are very included!!!”

can you believe that? He lives in a fantasy world that I am very included in their lives despite everything i listed above.

So, I do know that he is in the middle, and I dont want that, notice I did not hear back from my daughter.

and I didnt want to list out the obvious..so i just wrote..

“i do not expect you to be in the middle of this, i am only curious in what way do you think i have been and am in the lives of my grandkids?”

that was sat nite…so far i have not heard back and might never hear back…

so Renes post further made me think that the idea of rewarding crappy behavior with nice behavior makes no sense and is counter productive and rene, I am sorry for your pain, I know how it feels and it is brutal and just so debilitating.

and if i dont hear back from any of them at this point…screw it…my health has gone down the drain as a result of caring about them so much to the exclusion of myself..how stupid..

im done.

my approach now is respond to the behavior to me, if it is bad, then dont pretend that I am happy.

im not happy. im done. i wont send cards, gifts, calls, emails, texts or any pretense that I am okay with how I am being treated.

i just have to focus on me…im alone here in the city….have to try and stay okay…

im trying..fighting..but not doing a great job…i think ive wasted too many years CARING about those who dont care about me or who are too brainwashed to care about me…

how sad.

i need help from the real god…not the fake one that people thank…thank god so i can torment my own dad or my x…what kind of crap god is that? i hate that notion of god…any god that supports the silent treatment and hate and killing in that religioun is worse than a dog to me..yea i m hurt

i need help from the god that cares..and that doesnt hate and that does not condone hatred and the silent treatment…if there is such a god like that..would help.

sorry for rambling.
Richard

Reply

Lolana 7 April 2010 at 3:59 am Permalink

Richard,

That stuff is just plain mean. That you described. It sounds like it is time to say goodbye to these people. Blood is not thicker than water in this case and you will get nowhere with them. They do not even give you the respect of a phone call knowing you are upset.

I’m sorry and all you said really makes me sad on your behalf. Not being appreciated kills the spirit and it sounds like your efforts have been totally taken for granted. If I were in your position I would ask to be removed from email mailing lists, write off these people and say goodbye for good. You have to put your efforts toward people who give back to you.

Sometimes it’s easier to give to those who don’t give back, for whatever reason, or sometimes because we’re just conditioned to believe it’s OK. It’s not OK.

These relationships are not good for you. You can find good ones but these are not it. And God does not condone that kind of cruelty and avoidance. I’m sorry you have been so hurt. I know the feeling. I had to let go of my brother and my birth family because their definition of how it’s OK to act toward people is toxic to me. Unless that changes there is no future for us at all. I may never see them again, ever, and that has to be OK.

Once you realize that you really are alone you can start clean. But expecting something from relationships that are dry wells in reality is the cruelest hope of all. Saying goodbye is very hard but it means you will say hello, eventually, to real friendships and real caring relationships, not garbage like you described. Frankly they sound like rude people and I would not want to travel to be around them! You can find good people everywhere.

Good luck to you.

Reply
Sue 7 April 2010 at 8:33 pm Permalink

Remember the saying.

“Forgive them for they know not what they do”.

- it’s true, forgive them for their actions and for your sanity.

All the best.

Reply
- Gina 6 June 2010 at 2:00 pm Permalink
  
  Forgiving one can do. It’s the forgetting that’s the curse.
  
  Reply

Sue 8 March 2010 at 1:30 pm Permalink

Hi Richard

Sorry to hear your pain, thanks for the posting. The last part of your message is the thing you do need now.

And you are so right about not rewarding bad behaviour. I was too polite and good with my ex, rather than say some things to tell him off, I didnt because I loved him a lot. With hindsight I think that is the wrong approach you have to pull up these types on their behaviour or it’s like you allow it by not. Then they do more, or dont realise the impact of the actions possibly.

I also agree now, if things are not ok and not fine, then you cant say they are for keeping the peace, etc. If you are not ok and not happy, absolutely it needs to be said, but only when they are open to listening, if getting the silent treatment say it once, then leave it until they are (if ever) ready to listen.

Be strong, heal, repair, treat yourself, give your focus and energies to those who are present in your life now, those people only, and those who make efforts towards you.

I wish you well, feel sorry for them, pity them for their actions, and lack of wisdom. At least you will go through your life having a good conscience.

Reply

Michael 17 March 2010 at 11:09 am Permalink

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for saying this and sharing your feelings to gain insight for what you must be going through.
I think that all we can do is control our own actions and a straightforward and nonthreatening invitation to talk is not abuse, no matter what.
I really think that we should start looking at ourselves, and stop wasting our time- if there is a problem, it’s usually not just on the other side, its within us, so take a look at yourselves and stop complaining. The latter is I think the most destructing part of all this- complaining is not going to help with your life, it’s only going to make it worse. Get rid of all the anger and unnecessary life destructive passion- this is why people ignore you/or don’t want to talk to you, because the behavior is health and emotionally destructive. Otherwise you’ll be just as pathetic as the other side and sitting in front of your computer and looking at hundreds of posts and websites is NOT going to solve your problem- what you are experiencing is just the result of today’s society(or the people who drive it, due to personal interests) and you not grasping the source of the problem. Concentrate your life on achieving something important for your family, as well as the society- until
we get over the past, fortunately and the present is constantly improved, it is better- just go outside and look at the sky. You know what the main problem is- it is just EASY, it is SO EASY to just give up on the depression, sad feelings, Relax and say, oh I’m so pathetic, somebody help me, let me share it and see how many more depressed people are out there- you know what this is called, it’s called LAZINESS. Unfortunately it’s not your fault and it’s in human nature to go after the easy way- feel depressed, like a piece of liver lying on the couch, it’s easier to leave the family/ partner. it’s easier to take the money, instead of doing the right thing, it’s easier to ignore the source of the problem- inside us. You can do anything, you just have to really want it- when you don’t want it 100%, it’s just not going to happen…
Think about it!

Reply

Lolana 7 April 2010 at 3:38 am Permalink

Oh, so what people have been doing here is “complaining.”

“You know what the main problem is- it is just EASY, it is SO EASY to just give up on the depression, sad feelings, Relax and say, oh I’m so pathetic, somebody help me, let me share it and see how many more depressed people are out there- you know what this is called, it’s called LAZINESS.”

This forum has been very helpful for some people who previously blamed themselves for someone else’s being a jerk to them. You have the wrong forum. Go to google and search “jerk.” Then you can be among your own, where people magically get over things without discussing them with others who have been through it too.

The Get Over It school is where a lot of people who posted here have been mentally smacked around to the point where they don’t know that they’re actually not to blame for their partner’s abusive words and actions. The last thing they need is some jerk telling them to just get over it and “walk outside.”

The people who posted here HAVE walked outside, by clicking out to the broader world where they could see that other people experienced the same thing. That is the first step on the road to recovery. You have no idea about any of the lives of people who’ve posted here and whoever you think you are to judge them, I would suggest YOU take a look at YOUR own self and what kind of rottenness in your soul would prompt you to get on this forum and tell people they’re lazy and the problem is within themselves.

If I’ve gotten it wrong, then I am truly sorry. But I don’t think I have. Whatever your problem is, these people posting here do not need your bad energy which poses as good instruction.

It’s simply very uncool.

Reply
- Michael 9 April 2010 at 11:40 am Permalink
  
  Lolana,
  
  Please, do not reply with your passion and try to think about what I said- I did place too many things at once, so please try to look at it step by step.
  Where in any of the text above did you see me writing about stopping the discussion- on the contrary, that would be the worse part! BUT there is a difference between discussion and complaining (at least for my wife and me, because believe it or not, I was like you:)
  “The latter is I think the most destructing part of all this- complaining is not going to help with your life, it’s only going to make it worse. Get rid of all the anger and unnecessary life destructive passion- this is why people ignore you/or don’t want to talk to you, because the behavior is health and emotionally destructive.” …. here I would add, people are selfish, so because this type of behavior is health and emotionally destructive ,they block the behavior out, to preserve themselves- it’s in humans nature, but only happens with experienced people. normally the partner, who does that has had more relationship/friendship experience.
  Regarding the suffering person (who naturally causes more harm to themselves, because the other side has blocking wall enabled) : If you keep winding the same bad feelings, moments over and over and over again, it’s never going to go away, even worse, it’s destructive to yourself.
  I forgive you for calling me a jerk, I was expecting it the least for the people, who don’t understand and act with passion. It’s not your fault.
  Bad Energy you say…. I say bad Energy You See (unfortunately):
  “Concentrate your life on achieving something important for your family, as well as the society- until we get over the past, fortunately and the present is constantly improved, it is better- just go outside and look at the sky.”
  If the latter is bad energy, then I must be living in a different dimension.
  
  Reply
- Gina 6 June 2010 at 2:03 pm Permalink
  
  Here, Here Lolana!
  
  Reply

Jane 4 April 2010 at 11:16 am Permalink

HI

Just read your email, gee thats tough when family do that I have so called friends that do that , not anymore though I got rid of them and feel great. But I had to do it by being very kind to myself and rising above the problem(that they are causing, not my problem, but I still had to deal with it) and thats how I did it being really kind to me and my needs). Hope all goes well for you but do remember, some families do this, so dont worry just be your lovely self who could ask for more. be true to yourself thats ok. Take care.

Reply

Laura 13 April 2010 at 8:59 am Permalink

I have read all these mails, I have had this silent treatment from my lover with whom I share a very intimate relationship and plans to marry him, we are in long distance relationship but everytime I get angry or little sad rather than conforting me he gets silent. he lives in different country, he will switch off his mobile ,will not come online for months…. it use to make me feel everytime that its my fault, it made me such a insecure person but still i tried keeping this relationship coz when in good mood he will always confess that he loves me alot and really want to get married with me.

I always lived under fear that he will leave me, couple of days back we had normal fight and I tried calling him but he didnt take my call, I called him i guess 10 times but he just didnt care. now i have finally decided to give him his share of pie by giving him a silent treatment just the way he gives me, to make him realise how it feels when ur ignored, left alone and treated as a criminal for small small issues, I dont care anylonger if this relationship works or not i have done whatever I can, NOW Its his turn……

Reply

Venus 13 April 2010 at 3:45 pm Permalink

Marriage will not cure this. I know. I married a sulker. It gets worse. if he’s acting this way and you’re in a LDR, must imagine when you’re in the same house & this happens. It’s MADDENING. I would think long and hard if I were you about what you’re willing to put up with.

Reply
- Gina 6 June 2010 at 2:07 pm Permalink
  
  You are so right Venus! I was married to a sulker for twenty years before I thought of myself snough to get out. I’m now involved with someone who gives the silent treatment which is odd because this guy is so verbal. Anyway, don’t marry a sulker, it doesn’t get better over time. We had a daughter who is now twenty-two years old. He blames me for their lack of relationship, but not interacting with her as a child was his choice not mine.I raised her alone. There’s nothing worse than being married alone.
  
  Reply

Laura 14 April 2010 at 12:56 pm Permalink

yes you are right Venus, I agree with you, but for ryt now I am just doing what he does to me….give him back what he has given to me all these years………… what ever happens to relationship its not in my mind but before thinking about relationship in any ways….I just want him to have a silent and very cold treatment from me so that he can realise what he has done to me all these years……

Reply

Lolana 18 May 2010 at 4:37 am Permalink

Be careful, if he can put you out of his mind for months he will probably never be faithful for long periods of time. Only expect him to do the same things. Do you want a life of it–that you have to ask yourself. It sounds scary to me. I was there and it was scary. Good luck.

Reply

xavier 16 May 2010 at 3:58 am Permalink

I’ve gone through a lot of life’s ups and downs (52yrs old) and the only thing I can say is:

NOBODY IS THAT IMPORTANT!

The only important relationship I have is the one with God … period.

Reply

Debbie 17 May 2010 at 4:39 am Permalink

Hi. It’s been a looong time since I have posted. I just want to support the ones that are still caught in the vortex of doom: there is a way out! You must end the relationship as it exists, though. One of our biggest flaws (“our” being co-dependents, because people that are not co-dependent would NEVER tolerate such abusive behavior) is that we see people’s potential instead of reality.

Recently, on two separate occasions, two different nurses (at work) gave me the silent treatment. It did not last long. What they did not know was that I had endured decades of this from the man that I adored, hit bottom and shattered, and put myself back together. The way it affects me now is that I see those people as doing me a favor. Obviously, they are sociopaths, so the sooner they show their true colors, the sooner I can dismiss them. When they started talking to me again, I responded politely because I am a professional. I do not initiate friendly conversation with them, though. They know now, too, that I don’t play their game.

It is SO over.

It takes time to heal. It’s been a bit over three years since I came out of denial about my marriage. It will probably be another three years before our divorce is final because of unrelated legal issues. Does not matter! Do I still feel sad sometimes? Of course! I adored him! But, you know, my emotions don’t get stuck in me anymore … they flow through me. Do I still get nostalgic for how I thought things were or how I thought they would be? Of course! We share sons and I live amongst his family (I am from the opposite coast and thousands of miles from my family). But that just validates my effort to turn the other cheek, to treat him how I wanted to be treated. He is still a handsome man that possesses many noble characteristics but he wounded me on purpose for many years. Ironically, now that I treat myself with respect, so does he. Does this confuse me? Not one iota. He does not have the capacity to love as I do. I may have another relationship, sometime down the road, but this time I will hold out for someone that loves me, wants to be with me, treats me with kindness and respect.

You should, too.

When your mind is a tilt-a-whirl and you can’t get off, stop whatever you’re doing and do something else. There’s a ton of information on the internet about how to overcome the crazy tapes playing in your head. Go to those experts for ideas.

I am not an expert but a regular person like you, and I have learned to create my peace. I want you to know that you can, too!

Best wishes to all of you.

Reply

Michael 5 June 2010 at 4:51 pm Permalink

Dear Debbie,
I’m really sorry to hear about what happened to you. Please read some of my posts above to understand where the core of the problem is- you need a solution in order to live a peaceful life, and you need to get rid of all the things that placed this barrier in front of you and blocked your life. Here’s a previous excerpt:

“The latter is I think the most destructing part of all this- complaining is not going to help with your life, it’s only going to make it worse. Get rid of all the anger and unnecessary life destructive passion- this is why people ignore you/or don’t want to talk to you, because the behavior is health and emotionally destructive.” …. here I would add, people are selfish, so because this type of behavior is health and emotionally destructive ,they block the behavior out, to preserve themselves- it’s in humans nature, but only happens with experienced people. normally the partner, who does that has had more relationship/friendship experience.
Regarding the suffering person (who naturally causes more harm to themselves, because the other side has blocking wall enabled) : If you keep winding the same bad feelings, moments over and over and over again, it’s never going to go away, even worse, it’s destructive to yourself.

And I would add- don’t be selfish- think about your kids, about leaving them and creating monsters, creating a closed circle, which in fact contributes more to the problem in the future. Do not be selfish, please think about the future, think about your kids!

Reply

Lolana 18 May 2010 at 4:34 am Permalink

great post!

Reply

Michael 5 June 2010 at 5:04 pm Permalink

Thank you for understanding Lolana!

Reply

Venus 18 May 2010 at 4:25 pm Permalink

Hey guys. Just wanted to give a little update. My hub and I have been doing marriage counselling since Jan. Sometimes it seems we’re getting on great. Other times we have a little spat and I feel we’re back to the distant thing again. I sometimes am overcome with stress & anxiety & feel I made a mistake by leaving him, my whole life is a mess now. We have discussed me moving out of my place though he said he will not help me move my stuff since I’m the one who moved it all out. He did file a divorce and then withdrew it. I have to sign the dismissal and send it to his lawyer & haven’t yet. That’s where we are now.

Reply

Deborah 4 June 2010 at 10:16 am Permalink

Ive had enough of it. 25 years together and lots of silent treatment whenever he either doesnt get his own way or i dont agree with something he has said. I should automatically know what he wants because i am married to him and should guess by the expression on his face what he needs. Goal post moving regularly has made me feel like i dont know if i am coming or going. Walking on eggshells, banishing myself to another room just to avoid the gargoyle facial expressions that tell me i messed up again. I want out and as soon as possible. My self esteem and confidence has been ripped to shreds until i no longer even know who i am as a person. I have very little self belief because of all the bullcrap he has fed me over the years.

According to him this is not abuse. I ask for too much by wanting a relationship where we are able to communicate on a good level. Needing love and affection now and again is seen by him as me reading too many romance novels and believeing all i see on the tv.

I am done and even my kids are asking if we can move out, get our own home and start again so that they dont have to live with a man that one day is all smiles if the day has gone according to his liking and a man that refuses to look anyone in the eye if hes had a bad one.

He plays with our emotions and our brains too much and to be honest i have lost any love i ever felt for him. I am getting that i despise every bone in his body.

How can any person tell me that is love? Its not, its control

Reply

Gina 6 June 2010 at 2:13 pm Permalink

Well said Deborah. It’s emotional abuse. I was married for twenty years being silently bullied. Now i find myself with a man who is different, but the same. We’ll work it out and all will be well again. Solidarity and support is what I have found here and this is my first time here. What a concept and I am thankful for it!

Reply
- Deborah 8 June 2010 at 8:23 pm Permalink
  
  i didnt realise it was emotional abuse until i recently met someone else who for now is just a good friend that has showed me how i deserve to be treated. I have been shown more love in a friendly way by this man in the 8 weeks i have been in contact with him than the entire 25 years with my hubby.
  
  I am not prepared to put up with it for one more minute! Due to me be totally emotionally detached i can see things a whole lot clearer and OMG i cant believe what a total assclown my hubby is! I cannot beieve i used to look up to him!
  x
  
  Reply

Debbie 4 June 2010 at 12:27 pm Permalink

Do it. Leave.

I won’t lie. I struggle financially. But no amount of money or security is worth the healing I’ve grown and changed through. It’s been three and a half years since I had my epiphany (“It’s him! It’s not me. I’m done. DONE.”) and I still have weaknesses from all the years I tolerated the treatment, but I see how far I’ve come and it encourages me to keep on keepin’ on.

No surprise that since I started treated myself with respect, he does as well. *shoulder shrug* No, I don’t want to save the marriage. But since we’ll always be partners as parents, it has been helpful.

Well-meaning people ask if there’s anyone new in my life. No. If I ever do have another relationship, I doubt it will be anytime soon. My life is very, very full. But I knew this early on. I would not recommend getting involved with anyone else for a very long time … you’ve got a lot of healing to do.

We had some kind of problem when we got with these men, or we would have walked away before marriage and children. So, as much damage as you have to assess and recover, from being with him … it stretches back even further than that. You’ll get there … I did.

But first, you have to leave the relationship.

best wishes

Reply

Michael 5 June 2010 at 5:00 pm Permalink

Dear Debbie,
Sorry to repeat myself again, but you seem to be blinded by the common perception- I know there is a struggle inside all of us, and we need to overcome it. There’s only two paths that we can take- the easy way and the right way. Obviously most people take on the easy path and do not put enough effort and love to solve the problem-it’s common human nature, and the easiest way is to run away.
But few years down the road, as some of you mention above, the problems show up again, even with a different person- why we wonder. Because it’s not a problem of external nature, it’s an internal error.
Love does not come from other people, we should not wait on others to do it for us, but should look within ourselves, give all we have for the common good (not just for ours). Especially to safe our kids. Because after you run away, what do you think is going to happen- YOUR KIDS ARE GOING TO TURN INTO THE VERY SAME MONSTERS, I CAN PROMISE YOU AT LEAST THIS!

Don’t be selfish!!!- think about your kids, about leaving them and creating monsters, creating a closed circle, which in fact contributes more to the problem in the future. Do not be selfish, please think about the future, think about your kids!

Reply
- Michael 5 June 2010 at 5:02 pm Permalink
  
  correction of line 12 above: to save our kids, or even better: for the sake of our kids
  
  Reply
  - Sue P 12 June 2010 at 12:50 pm Permalink
    
    Debbie
    
    Have you now left your hubby? I think you responded earlier in the year to my post, about having dated this type of guy, and being in a state of “what have I done wrong here”, but then having the narcissist label has helped immensely.
    
    I think unless a person has intimately encountered this type you cant understand the real situation. It’s a personality disorder and they have no empathy, use control, manipulation, hugely selfish and so the other person suffers.
    
    I too have realised I am co-dependent which is what drew me to him, but also more importantly kept me with him for so long trying to work things out when many women of another type would have walked away.
    
    The plus side is codependents can learn and change, narcisstic and selfish types cant because sadly it’s inherent in their character. And I agree with you, I too feel sad for him, as it’s not of his doing, and most likely to do with his childhood development and something that caused him to go this way. So sad, as I think they want love, but they do things to the one they love that actually hurt and end up driving you away or wearing you down if you choose to submit, and then enter compliance doormat behaviour, and loss of self respect as they then have full control over you. A partner can give up control and submit, but these are not healthy relationships.
    
    As the lady above said she realised when she spoke to someone else how different the types are.
    
    Just my update: at the start of the year I was in hell, blaming myself, as he blamed me, and then I came across the idea of emotional abuse, something I didnt initially like the label of, but now accept. I too ended up going to a counsellor and that independent view really helped me too, understand it was not me going insane! I’m now at the very end of the healing, and will soon be ready to move on. Understanding the real dynamics of the whole situation is what helped hugely to the answers and healing.
    
    Wow – it’s been a long time coming before I could utter those words myself of “move on”.
    
    All the best Debbie.
    
    Reply

Debbie 5 June 2010 at 5:25 pm Permalink

Hi Michael,

Thanks, but you need to read back to the very beginning.

I am very peaceful and content now. I woke up 3.5 years ago, just about a week after my husband’s and my 23rd anniversary and his umpteenth silent treatment.

He is a sociopath. Read up on that.

My adult sons support me in every way.

They have normal, healthy relationships with their girlfriends.

My sisters-in-law always joked that he was such a jerk, I must be staying in the marriage because of them.

I was very close to his mother. We lost her 14 years ago. But she used to tell me that I needed to secretly save money, so that when the time came, I could go … she would not finish the sentence, but I knew. She knew I knew. Everyone says that out of her seven kids, MY husband was exactly like hers.

Thank you for your good intentions but the problem with those of us that get sucked into these relationships is that we are co-dependents. Read up on that, too.

I was in such denial. When I came out, my world came crashing down around me. I thought that if I would turn the other cheek and forgive … treat him as I wanted to be treated … eventually, he would know my love was true and treat me accordingly. But you know what? That does not work with sociopaths. Read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, while you’re at it. That does not truly fit my husband, but there are elements that rang true. I did go to therapy for two years. Thank Gawd for Amy. She’s never told me what to do. She listened to me and assured me that I was not going insane. If anything, I was becoming sane.

So, thank you for your good intentions but, as my best friend always says about me, I am “the most hopeful person about hopeless situations” that she has ever known.

I have processed and released the pain, sorrow, humiliation, and shame. I have finally brought to the surface the anger that I was never allowed to express, less I be punished.

And you know what? Now that I treat myself with respect, HE treats me with respect too! I forgave him long ago because that’s my nature … but forgiveness does not mean to trust those that have proven they are untrustworthy. It means to release the anger and other valuable emotions once they have done what they’re supposed to do: urge action.

I acted.

He is the father of my sons. When he went for follow up bloodwork for potentially deadly healthscares, he talked to me about it. I was in touch with him throughout the anxious waiting time.

I don’t hate him. I understand that he is very damaged somewhere deep down inside. But I no longer will tolerate his abuse.

So, once again, thanks. But you have me all wrong.

The people that are here, in the raw stages of their bewilderment and the remaining emotions that will surface, given the right, need to be assured that others have been where they are now and have healed. That is why I pop up from time to time. But their willingness to give repeat offenders another chance is what keeps them in their hell. They need enough anger and confidence to change because doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results, is a sign of insanity.

Give them some room to bust out of their insanity.

Give them a place to vent without your platitudes.

If they work hard, they will reach the place they long to be … where they can stand next to the father/mother of their children and not have the little hairs on the back of their neck stand up … when they can drive without pulling over to the side of the road to sob because a Springsteen or a Dead song came on the radio … when they can call the spouse and ask if s/he got the results of the test back knowing, that if what is suspected comes true, they will be there to support that person.

Of course, if they don’t share children and haven’t spent over half of their years with this person, maybe they just want to sever the ties and move one. Whatever. It’s not for me to say.

Just know, Michael, that I am very peaceful … very content.

Reply

Surreal4me2 7 June 2010 at 11:28 pm Permalink

After dating a man (and I used that term cautiously) for about a year and having experienced the silent treatment 4 to 5 times, I decided that our relationship was going no where fast. I became very resentful and felt mistreated, so I decided to opt out, permanently. When a Woman/Man truly cares for you, they do not exact punishment by means of the silent treatment.

Reply

Sue P 12 June 2010 at 12:32 pm Permalink

Good decision. It’s controlling and manipulative behaviour too. Seeing and acting on those early signs is totally the right thing to do. Well done on spotting it and acting on it.

Reply

Debbie 12 June 2010 at 1:41 pm Permalink

Hi Sue P,

Yes, I left him. Come September, it will be two years since I moved out.

This August, it will be three years since I filed for divorce. It will not finalize anytime soon and I don’t care. I have learned that “closure” is a fairy tale, like “world peace”. It’s a lovely ideal, but new experiences caused me to revisit old emotions until about a year ago. Now there are no attending emotions when something stirs a memory, but I was married to him for half of my life so it’s connected to a lot of what’s in my head and heart. I have moved on but there was no closure. It’s more like that time of my life is woven into the fabric of who I am. Closure? No. Integration? Yes.

What was important for me was getting out of that house and being away from him. That is what I needed and that is what I got. I can go there, now, and not shake and sweat … not go back to my place and break down into sobs as my mind reeled with memories of things he had said and done.

Do I have any regrets? No. Because of my own fractured childhood, I was hell bent on my sons getting the middle-class childhood I wanted them to have, and they did. Their father loves them. I see something in his sad brown eyes that tells me he is a prisoner in his own private hell and I am sorry for that, but I am no longer willing to pay for it.

One final thing for you all to ponder: you know how they treat you this way when no one else is looking? How they put an arm around you and smile when someone wants to take a picture but withold affection at home … how people tell you the wonderful things they say about you when you’re not around, but they only criticize you/treat you civilly/give you hostile silence when at home? They perform on the outside but show you the *real* them at home.

Back in 2005, I missed this huge, waving red flag: He’d been incredibly hostile and silent for about three weeks. Of course, I tossed and turned in our bed while he slept like a baby. One night, I got up because he wasn’t in bed. I saw him sitting in the glow of the tv, with the look of a furious man. I went in and sat. I was quiet. After about ten minutes, he looked at me and growled, “What do you want?” Having been a sobbing mess for three weeks, terrified that I would say the wrong thing, I meekly said, “Please. Please tell me what is wrong. Why are you so angry at me?”

He unleased a torrent and, of course, told me that it was all my fault he was saying these things. But … amongst the things that he said … that he hadn’t loved me as much as he used to, since our first son was born (1986) and that he regretted our marriage and that it cut him like a knife (while tracing his finger down the middle of his chest) that his children were half me … he also said that I had “no personality, no opinions”.

Well … you know … after all the years of tiptoeing on eggshells around him, so afraid to do something wrong … I bet he’s right.

I told two of my friends what he said and one of them laughed SO HARD at the part of “no personality, no opinions”. “YOU? NO PERSONALITY? NO OPINIONS?”

You know, around everyone else in the world, I can be overwhelming. I have a huge personality and I certainly have opinions, but around him … I was milquetoast.

Just something to keep in mind, if you’re not sure if you should stay or go. We’re all a bit different with different people. That’s healthy. That means that you are interacting with them and have something unique. But your core values should never waiver. You should be “YOU” no matter who you are with. You may cuss like a sailor with your best friend and mind your p’s and q’s with your Grama, but that’s normal.

Are you afraid to be you with “The Ice Man”?

If you’re still in this sticky web and very confused, that’s normal. Like a lab rat hit with current during random attempts to go to the chow, you are afraid to run out the open door. Normal stuff. You’re always seeing some horrendous story of a woman being beaten to a pulp and taking him back … or letting the boyfriend/husband beat the child, often to death, and not reporting it … and you think to yourself, “OH MY GAWD! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT WOMAN???” I am not making excuses for her. But, I will tell you, that after insidious abuse, you get very, very confused. Look up Stockholm Syndrome. There’s a lot of info out there. It may not all apply to you, but the knowledge will give you the confidence to do what you must do.

Until you leave the relationship and take pro-active steps to heal yourself, you will not heal. It will not be enough for him to leave you for another, or for him to go serve in Iraq, or whatever … the healing comes in you standing up for yourself and NOT going into another relationship until you change the way you think.

best wishes to all of you

Reply

Sue P 12 June 2010 at 3:38 pm Permalink

Hi Debbie

I hear your story loud and clear, and I am glad you have defined it so well to find your true self and peace again.

Yes, in my situation I too found myself, not being myself, on eggshells in order to make sure he didnt react badly in any way. It’s a bad sign, and I didnt see it for what it was at that time. Though I realise as a codependent I had submitted in that way, but I only realised this after the event.

I thought I would marry this man, have kids, and live the rest of my life with him, after a long time together, but not married, it’s proved tough to heal from, as my heart had decided it was him and kids with him, etc.

It’s weird because for a long time I loved him, despite what he did. That’s where it becomes the domestic abuse situation, and I still wanted to go back to him, because I loved him. Just as in domestic abuse where the woman keeps going back, but the cycle repeats.

It’s funny you mentioned Stockholm Syndrome, I think that applies to me too. It’s very odd, when a man controls the time and how much love he decides to give you, over a long period of time, you suddenly adapt to being grateful for such scraps of love, time and attention from him. This is extremely unhealthy behaviour, and I deserved so much more, but I had adapted to my situation with him. It had become all about him, his needs, his wants.

In the end, I too had an ultimatum (like I read on an earlier post), as a result of which I said no to something, and then that was it, he withdrew his love, I got silence, then refusal to meet or discuss. Treated in an instant like I dont exist. It was then the selfishness of his core really showed. No empathy, no care, reckless love, and immaturity.

And my alternative was if I had said yes to his question, I would have to lead a life of submission to him. It was my way or the highway mentality, and so I ended up on the highway. But at the time I had answered no, I hadnt realised that was the consequence, much to my shock and disbelief. I guess it’s all control again then.

Control, manipulation, silence, control over and over, and so the cycle begins again.

It is very interesting how to others he comes over as a warm charismatic man, so smiley, successful, etc. Yet interpersonally, can be so cruel, harsh, controlling, manipulative and mean. Yet those outside cant see that, it is hidden, and so lies the mask and “false self” often referred to. Was this the person that you first fell in love with, i.e. the “false mask” that everyone sees, I suspect now it is.

I finally have the label for it all, of narcissism, with control, silence, manipulation, i.e. emotional/psychological abuse. Something I had never encountered in my life before. Having the labels, gives me a bit more peace, but there is no joy in defining his problem this way, as there is no cure, nor giving myself that tag of having been affected by it. Both parties dont get what they really want, i.e. the others true love, which is sad when they both love each other, but one is not giving “good love”, it’s “toxic love”.

Since I am no longer with him, I no longer crying as a result of something he has done, I have no disappoints or let downs from him either. My emotions in that sense have stablised back into my control, and my confidence is almost back to how it was pre-him, and as I define the situation, I will know what to look for next time.

Debbie, thanks for your posts, I wish there was a way to contact you direct on here. I think you’re a star for having defined it so well especially given the years you’ve endured. I think the longer it goes on, the harder it becomes to extricate yourself from any abuse/neglect situation, and it’s very hard to see, or for others. It’d be much easier if it had been physical abuse where you get nice bruises to show and define it.

I found this on an article about how to spot abusers, some may find it useful:

“Abusers invariably put on a pleasant “front” at first, until they have us where they want us. But even during this time, they usually show signs that give a clue to what they are capable of. If a person displays any of the following, be very wary of them:

•Poor impulse control. A lack of self-control means there are no breaks on behaviour that can be damaging to others.
•Very low, or very high self-esteem (they feel inferior or superior to others).
•Selfishness.
•A sense of entitlement.
•Lack of empathy and sympathy for others.
•Is needy or dependent.
•Is demanding and insistent on having their own way all the time.
•Has, or has had, trouble making and keeping relationships (has had very many failed relationships or very few relationships).
•Comes on too strong, too quickly.
•Tries to alienate you from your friends, family, co-workers etc.
•Abuses alcohol or drugs.
•Has a history of physical, verbal or sexual abuse.
•Has a history of mental illness.
•Has trouble supporting themselves.
•Shows antisocial behaviour such as breaking laws and ignoring rules.
•Needs to feel powerful and in control, needs always to be right and “on top”.
•Is aggressive, combative, and hostile.
•Has a bad temper.
•Is preoccupied with sex.
•Mistreats animals. Anyone who is cruel to, or mistreats animals, is likely to do the same to people.

Having one of the above qualities does not necessarily make someone a potential abuser (although it may). The more of such qualities someone possesses the more likely they are to be a destructive force in the lives of others. We need to pay attention to the people who share our lives and not automatically assume that they all have good intentions toward us.”

Reply
Venus 12 July 2010 at 3:03 pm Permalink

Omg, Debbie. I can so relate to you when you said your husband ignored you and then sat ice cold for a few minutes and then you asked “why are you so angry” and he blamed it all on you, saying you were making him say/do those things. My husband has done exactly this to me on more than one occassion.
I am still in the “limbo” mode. Separated ten months now, still talking on the phone daily, seeing eachother frequently. Last night we were on the phone and I told him how I felt and he became upset and cussing nad said he didn’t want to “talk about it” and he wouldn’t. I always listen when he vents. Anyway this morning he calls me and says he can talk today to which I replied that it was convenient for him (a lot of things happen on his terms), he got upset and said “or we don’t have to talk at all.”
Sometimes I think it’s not that bad (like when we’re together) but the moment we part, I remember. Grr. It’s like being stuck in a vacuum with no out in sight.

Reply

Debbie 12 June 2010 at 4:04 pm Permalink

Thank you, Sue P, for your kind words.

You and I have made it through to the other side, the healthy side. We’ll continue to heal and grow, to truly live.

There were times that I went on a long rant to post here, only to delete and keep quiet. I don’t want to just whine, whine, whine … for many reasons … but the most important one, for me, is because continuously talking about my past would keep me in it. I live in the moment now.

On the other hand … I know the confusion that others here are drowning in. They need to hear from those that have come through the craziness and created a healthy life. I have posted as if all the perp’s were male and all the victims were female. I know that’s not the case and I want to apologize and acknowledge the males. Not everyone here was married, with children, either. In fact, some were dealing with co-workers, not significant others. Whatever. The differences are not nearly as important as what we all have in common.

And what I want for all of you to have in common with me now, is the ability to recognize your responsibility and power to take control of your life and get out of this situation.

Don’t give up on forgiveness. It is truly a gift that we give ourselves. Just understand that forgiving someone does not mean keeping the relationship as it exists. Where there is no trust, there is no relationship. With time and honesty to yourself, you can forgive … you can release the torment that binds you and, if you have to communicate with this person because you share children, you can reach a place where it is not painful.

Don’t swear off The Golden Rule and turning the other cheek just because it held you in submission, in an unhealthy relationship. WHEN you heal and IF you decide to try again, AS LONG AS the new relationship is healthy, The Golden Rule will apply.

Enjoy the weekend, Sue, and everyone else reading this site. I am off to watch the World Cup at a friend’s.

Reply

Sue P 12 June 2010 at 4:19 pm Permalink

Hi Debbie

Silly question, but “what is the Golden Rule?”

Yes, true, I describe a male partner, as it was my experience, but it applies equally to women, workplaces, family relatives, etc.

I agree, something talking too much is bad, as it reenforces the bad vibes and thoughts, etc, but here for a short bit I think explaining some situations, reasons, definitions, ideas, and the way out, does help others. As I know reading your posts, and others had helped me open my eyes to the full real situation I was in. Only then once you define the full problem and recognise it can you even begin to attempt to act and do something about it.

Please everyone, remember, silence is controlling and manipulative behaviour. In healthy relationships, there is give and take, care, communication and respect.

Reply

Debbie 12 June 2010 at 4:27 pm Permalink

That’s not a silly question. Especially here, where we have people afraid to express their opinions, ask questions, etc, for fear of retribution.

The Golden Rule is: Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule

Reply

Sue P 13 June 2010 at 12:55 am Permalink

Yes we apply it, but our respective partners have not, which is why were are all where we are.

Reply

Michael 8 July 2010 at 2:37 pm Permalink

Dear Debbie and Sue P,
Indeed it is very sad, especially by the fact that you free yourself and yet you manage to destroy so much around. Sometimes we have to think back and think of the real reasons of why this happened, and why the divorce(or separation) occurred – would you trade your few moments of suffering for the life of your children. We don’t usually think about this, but we have to place ourselves in the spot of all the people who are involved in the family – especially our kids. What is going to happen every time they have to explain- yes, I come from a divorced family; why- because my parents did not marry for the right reasons in first place- love, something which is missing in our lives, we look for criteria in people and how they should behave, but we don’t look within ourselves and realize that maybe the problem is not just on the other side, maybe its within us. And why does it happen so often that it’s almost like we are buying something on the market- where is the love? are we so damaged that we don’t care about love? and what about the next person afterward- there’s no way I’m going to be able to trust him/her, right! No trust can only guarantee you NO love (unless you are in love with something else, but the person him/herself).
Indeed, you should read into the Golden Rule and weight out the positive versus the negative effects- not just on you, but on your surroundings and the world- the Golden Rule has definitely not helped humanity prosper and we see that in our everyday lives (otherwise everybody would be dead, since people are constantly fighting in wars). But most importantly consider the negative effects on your kids- after all, this is what we live for , isn’t it?- if you ruin the life of your kids , your offspring is just not going to survive for long. And the divorce is one of those things, which have destroyed an immense amount of human lifes- don’t take it from me, take it from the PhD scientific people who have studied it their whole life and dedicated entire generations in trying to understand it and its damaging effect:
http://www.childadvocate.net/divorce_effects_on_children.htm
Unfortunately for many people, they don’t read into it and don’t try to understand, until they realize what a mistake they have done lets say 20 years down the road (for others a lot sooner).
I am so glad this post helped our family- my wife and me and after we did a comprehensive research into the topic we found what what the real problems were- selfishness from both sides, waiting on the other person to do something, and when they finally do it, we don’t see it, because we have this HUUUGE , ENORMOUS wall in front of us- sadly the outcome is pre-determined. We thank whoever is above us in the sky every day that we were few of the lucky ones to understand the real purpose and the secret to keep the family together- it is true, not everybody can do it, most people are quite weak and don’t have enough passion to achieve purposeful goals in their lifes.

Debbie, not signing the divorce papers for 3 years now- wow its quite an achievement, sadly not in the good meaning, and why- well, you either sign them or not- you make the decision in your life, you don’t keep an extra backup plan, you don’t keep the other person prisoner and wait until they fall down on their knees- you can’t expect from somebody to do something, which you yourself cannot do- you are going to completely loose any respect not just from the partner, but everybody surrounding you:
Don’t do to people, what you don’t want somebody else to do to you- this is the real Golden Rule; indeed it could be interpreted in many ways.
I’m sorry but calling your kids “adults who understand” (at no matter what age they are) just to shield yourself and find approval reasons for the mistake you’ve done- it’s plain wrong- please read again regarding the effect of the divorce on the poor human beings:
http://www.childadvocate.net/divorce_effects_on_children.htm
We are destroying ourselves and we should sit down and think about it very hard, before we do something, which we know will damage our whole offspring and for which we’ll be sorry. Sad, very sad.
But don’t give up, please don’t give up and try, try until you get rid of this built up selfishness!

Reply

Debbie 12 July 2010 at 2:43 pm Permalink

Michael,

You are totally missing the boat.

I didn’t stop loving him. He “hasn’t love me as much as he used to since shortly after our first child was born.” That would be 1986.

“(He) regrets our marriage.”

“It cuts (him) like a knife that our sons are half (me).’

When I finally mustered all of my courage and said to him, “You know, (name), I regularly tell you how much I appreciate the long hours you put in at work so we can have a home in a good neighborhood, and that you look good in a certain pair of jeans, and that our boys are lucky to have a dad that likes to play ball with them. Would it kill you to say something nice to me once in awhile?” and he said, walking past me, avoiding my vulnerable face, “Well, I don’t think you do anything very well.”

These are not the words of a man that wants to love me and make our marriage work.

When I am not around, he says kind things about me. You can imagine what those people think.

When it was just him and I, he criticized me mercilessly. With the exception of my cooking and housekeeping skills, and that he feels I am a “damn good mother”, he has nothing but contempt for me.

About five years into our marriage, after months of hostile silence, he (out of the blue) tried to initiate sex. Horrified, I told him no, he had to talk to me first … he could not ignore me and be hostile for three months and then expect me to have sex with him. He sneered at me and said, “Yes, I can.” Silence resumed. About a month later, shaking, losing my mind, I initiated sex. He came after ten minutes, rolled over and went to sleep. I thought about his guns, locked in the safe box. I got up and went to the couch, terrified, and finally cried myself to sleep, mashing my face in a pillow.

DON’T YOU GET IT???

Not everyone gets the rosey ending that you do. I am happy for you.

As for the hold on the divorce: our son was in a car accident and we are named in three lawsuits. When I say we, I mean my son and I. For reasons no one can explain, even though my husband I both are on the registration and insurance, my husband is not listed. So, while I would like to finalize the divorce, this is not an intelligent time to do this.

I am so upset, I am shaking. I think you are an awful person, Michael, with your preaching. Go have a lovely life.

Reply

Lisa 12 July 2010 at 5:44 pm Permalink

Hi all,

Been a while since I last posted. First of all – Michael, the root of everything suffered by the people on here is not ”selfishness on both sides”. It’s actually from severe selfishness on one side, and too much empathy and compassion on the other. You really are not getting it. But I don’t want to get into a discussion with you on this. Debbie, you ok?

If any of you are in the UK you will have heard about the gunman the police were chasing recently. My ex was one of the marksmen up there and he was on my mind constantly, worrying he’d be ok. So I sent him a brief text (first in months and months) just saying ”be safe”.

He replied (which floored me) but said he wasn’t sure who I was. Either he really had deleted my number or he wanted me to think that. I didn’t make any fuss and just replied ”it’s lisa, be safe with that madman on the loose”.

Middle of the night, around 2am, he sent me a text ”I will, thanks. How are you”. I didn’t reply, knowing he was on shift, but was elated that he was speaking to me and went back to sleep knowing I would reply in the morning. I can’t explain the relief and hope I felt in that instant. So I picked up my phone in the morning intending to reply, only there was another one from him saying ”Lisa. Mmm.. which one”. I was gutted.

So I fired off ”the one with a squint and one leg shorter than the other” to be facetious and at least knowing he’d laugh and realise it was me because that’s my sense of humour (please don’t anyone be offended by this).

A day later he returns with ”still not sure who you are” so I told him. Silence. A simple ”thanks, you take care too” would have been enough. But no, he had to hurt me once more – a year after he’d hurt me already. There really is no water under the bridge with these people.

Not wanting to give him the satisfaction and last word I sent a final text ”wrong answer eh be safe”. And nothing.

What the hell is wrong with them??

I have only been hurt by one other boyfriend, years ago, who wouldn’t talk to me afterwards because he was too ashamed of what he’d done. All of this came out years later when he heard I was leaving the country and he wanted to speak to me one last time. He actually had tears in his eyes apologising, and I was the one to comfort him!?

But this guy, the cop, is a creature I have never come across before. Vindictive, cold, heartless. I was sorry I had contacted him – not that I wanted anything, I was just worried about him – and I didn’t eat for 2 days. It put me back months and months and my own guilt at having looked in his phone for what I suspected all along came flooding back. But never did I expect him to be so cold a year later.

Reply

Sue P 13 July 2010 at 1:15 am Permalink

Hiya,

Debbie I hope you are ok? Dont let people who dont know you, such as posters on here upset you. You and me each know what we have been through, it’s been hell. Know in yourself the truth and your reasons for the actions, and be strong. Dont feel you should justify any of your situation to strangers.

Lisa – wow your references are so similar in character/personality type to my ex. It’s narcisstic, part of which is all about no empathy, no guilty, no conscience, and super selfishness, and that’s just how that type are. It’s their core character type so hard to change it. And those text are controlling behaviour again, etc. Heal and dont look to them to play ball with you for anything, they are takers only, take take take.

Know these types for what they really are, and see through their charade. All the best.

Reply

Debbie 13 July 2010 at 2:01 am Permalink

Thanks, Lisa, I am okay now. No surprise, my husband is a retired cop. While that career choice probably made him worse, he displayed all these behaviors before he became a cop. So no, being a cop did not make him this way. I am sure it’s partly how he’s wired and partly life experiences, but you know, we all suffered from the hard-knocks of life and we don’t all become abusive. My mother had a violent tember but I do not … it is possible to make the decision and make the choice to control one’s behavior.

Thanks, Sue P. You know, there were two really important lessons that I learned from Michael: always be vigilant in my awareness because husband is always up to something and don’t preach. People tease me for being Pollyanna, wearing rose-colored glasses, being a ‘diplomat’ … even my best friend always said that I was the most hopeful person about hopeless situations that she’s ever known … But, I was so wounded by Michael’s sanctimonious position that I will, from now one, be forever on-guard against sounding like him.

*kicking my soapbox to pieces*

Thank you for the continued support.

Reply

Lisa 13 July 2010 at 9:50 am Permalink

Hi Debbie and Sue,

Thanks for your support. I’ve felt really isolated for the best part of a year now and of course, just as I was starting to get my confidence back, I felt strong enough to show him I still cared on some level and was willing to let bygones be bygones. But no, he still thinks I’m a ‘boiler’. See, I knew I was being messed with and had been in a 4 year unfaithful relationship before him so I knew all the signs. So I did a bad thing and looked in his phone. And got all the evidence I needed in just a handful of texts.

He wasn’t even angry when I confronted him, just sorry and understanding and telling me it would be ok. Then he never spoke to me again, apart from one tirade of contempt and name calling via text, laughing at my hurt feelings and how having been cheated on before made me a ‘boiler’.

Debbie – I think the way they’re wired makes them v suited to that profession. Also the need to control and dominate is satisfied by it. Mine had a contempt for his mother that was astonishing – called her ‘nuts’ because she had agoraphobia; she died of cancer and while he recounted the event with some feeling, said he couldn’t cry. I’m happy you’re the diplomatic, understanding kind – don’t ever let anyone tell you that’s a weakness.

Sue – there’s always a bit of comfort knowing someone else understands what you went through, but I’m sad that you had the same experience with a sociopath/narcissist. Did you say in a previous post that you went for therapy that really helped? I did hypnotherapy to get rid of the anxiety and nerves but nothing after. I’m getting better but usually am racked with guilt that I brought this all on myself for invading his privacy, and often think he is right to hold me in this kind of contempt. Any therapy advice would be greatly appreciated!

Be well both of you x

Reply

Sue P 13 July 2010 at 11:23 pm Permalink

Hiya, I didnt go at first, but then I knew I needed something, as I was not moving on at all. I knew something was odd about my situation, despite what some kept telling me, i.e. it’s just time. No, it’s not because this was not a normal break up, and now having the knowledge of narcissism and how the silent treatment is used it hugely helpful.

In the end yes I went to a set amount of sessions in therapy. I had read a lot but it helped just offload it but also getting the mechnical view of how and what we are and what happens to us. And what about me caused me to be drawn to him and stay with him when others would not. Those were the interesting things, as well as just knowing the mechanics of post-trauma, really helped with just these labels too. It has definitely aided my recovery to see it’s him not me, and for a third party to make that judgement call on it too. Almost partly because you arent sure of what is normal anymore and doubt things in yourself, or make excuses. Whereas the counsellor does not as they have no emotional tie in to the partner you describe to them.

I recommend you give it a few sessions, a) to offload, and b) for any useful bits of info they give you.

I dont suggest you do too long sessions, as I can see it can become addictive and then something you rely on.

Take care

Sue.

Reply

Debbie 13 July 2010 at 2:03 pm Permalink

Thank you, I feel much better. I feel tired, like I have jet lag, but I always feel that way when I revisit an old experience and learn new things.

I look around at others I know and see that we all struggle with something. I don’t blow off other’s hardships just because they are cake for me. I understand that our belief systems sustain us but they also oppress us. We have to break out of the box and be willing to let go of our coping mechanisms if we are to ever move on. That said, our brains have deep grooves where years and years of certain thoughts, feelings and behaviors have burned over and over and over …

and every now and again, someone is going to push a button and the new paths in the brain will be abandoned for the old. *sigh* That’s alright. As long as I learn something from the experience … even if it’s only to pick myself up and put myself back on the newer, healthier path … than it is worth it.

That is what pushes me through the hard times. I’m sure it sounds like psychobabble to many. I have only a rudimentary understanding of the anotomy and physiology of the brain. But I feel better. There’s nothing I can do about other people’s behavior … they have the freedom to be who they want to be … but I have the power to protect myself and maintain my boundaries.

That is a great lesson that I have learned after spending all these years with a sociopath.

Reply

elleke 13 July 2010 at 7:55 pm Permalink

Haven’t commented for a while. You all have me thinking. My brother retired policeman. He does not pretend to have people skills, says that is just politicking. So he relies on his authority for his relationships. However, when someone really challenges his authority or his abuse of it, he gives them the silent treatment. He has such confidence in himself that he believes he out-thinks anyone else and that the “anyone else” must recognize not only his knowledge but his position. When he realizes this is not going to work, then he disengages. I am sure his feelings are hurt because he has worked hard to develop a facade that seems genuine. His facade enables him to verbally bully others and to seemingly discount their knowledge or understanding. When I (among others) have challenged him (not with superior knowledge or debating skills, but just plain stubbornness and refusal to back down) he flees with hurt feelings (and overwhelming anger, I suppose). Then he does not speak to you.
Such a person to have as a policeman. However, it is good that he never applied for any promotion or was offered one because that way his authority was limited in his profession. He says he never wanted a promotion because of having to play those dreaded politics.
He is not speaking to me presently because I challenged his behavior and would not let him talk me down. The issue we were debating is a legal one (money) that involves us personally and we will probably end up in court where he cannot refuse to talk. Such a shame because a little genuine interchange would have prevented this.
I have stopped being hurt by the silent treatment from him or those in my birth family. Since it hurt so badly when I was young, I went for therapy and learned a lot about myself. I love myself enough not to set myself up for more pain. I know what kind of consequences there will be if I challenge him. I decide if it is worth it. It took a long time to realize how strong I am.
I think you all can come to this conclusion, also. I hope and pray that you do.
One thing that sustains me is my faith. I realized how much those who love and give are vulnerable to this kind of hurt. And those loving people WILL BE HURT. Loving honest people are the perfect foils for those who are really needy, mean or just plain lost. But we can only do so much for them. Loving them is not enough. They must learn to love and respect themselves.
Last, I would say that the silent treatment as a “norm” is a form of immaturity (very young, 4 or 5 years of age). When we are kids and we sulk we find out that sometimes it can give us a certain power. Over the years it can be reinforced. I can’t help but think that over all those years that the affirmative feelings of genuine intimacy were perverted into a negative experience and there is nothing left for these guys to rely on in relationships except for power plays. Such a shame.

Reply

Michael 13 July 2010 at 11:16 pm Permalink

Dear Debbie and all,
I’m so not surprised that you have this wall in front of you and do not try to understand- I ALREADY WENT TROUGH THIS WITH MY WIFE, I SUFFERED A NON-TALKER, as well as I myself turned into one afterwords. But it was because the other side was so exhausted that they didn’t have anything else to say- and WHAT IS THE POINT INDEED, when no matter what you say, the side which is supposedly talking has this very same wall and does not try to understand, even though subconsciously they might think they do- its sort of a disease, and this is what we understood with my wife. Please read my very detailed post above regarding this damaging ‘defense mechanism’ (the wall).
I don’t want to be judgmental Debbie,but usually in life people get what they deserve, sooner or later- unfortunately sometimes their kids have to pay for it(can share a personal experience, which you are probably not going to believe- we have a miracle in our family, which survived a several story fall on a concrete pavement).

p.s.: very convenient that nobody discussed the link, which I posted (http://www.childadvocate.net/divorce_effects_on_children.htm) – after all, some of what I say is personal experience, but a lot comes from people who have dedicated their lifes.
We are here to help each other, not to blame ; and to share experience as well as to learn from the mistakes from others- why are you so afraid of the truth?!?

p.s.2: Lisa- text messaging is not a communication- it’s a way to destroy relationships; if you really care about the person, you would pick up the phone and talk to the person. But don’t take it from me-I’m a guy right, I don’t understand; well, take it from the experts- believe it or not they are also women:
http://www.nwmissourinews.com/2.3247/text-messaging-threatens-to-destroy-our-communication-skills-1.339751

One sentence says it all:

“What we’ve got here … is a failure to communicate.”

p.s.3:elleke is so right- silent treatment is immaturity indeed, because the person in focus hasn’t grown enough to understand, as well as the person who thinks they are communicating on the other side hasn’t grown up enough to be able to explain- both sides need to do something about it and the more mature should put their foot down and say- no, I’m not stopping until you understand, and not take the easy way out and run away.

“What we’ve got here … is a failure to communicate.”

Reply

Debbie 14 July 2010 at 11:02 am Permalink

Dear Michael,

I have read all those things and more.

I do believe in miracles, having witnessed them myself. If you think you have one iota of who I am from this site, you are mistaken.

My husband went to counseling once, back around ’91, and refuses to return. After he attacked our son (who was a teen at the time), and I told him he needed anger management counseling, he just laughed at me and told me I was crazy.

He’s not going.

I have read what you recommended and more. None of this is new to me. I learned this stuff in Psych 101 many decades ago. I never painted my husband as the ‘all bad’ guy. One of my co-workers just reprimanded me last week for defendinging him. I know his attributes. I fell in love with them. Unfortunately, they’re all part of his facade.

As for getting what I deserve: of course I did. I am a co-dependent and I attract covert and overt manipulators. I have worked very hard to heal. My husband will be the first to tell you that I am not selfish enough … that I did too much for him and our sons. As for communication, I did read a plethora of books and tried every which way to get him to open up, even peaceful quiet to give him space. While that has worked wonderfully with others, he is so suspicious of everyone that he would treat the Pope and Mother Theresa no differently.

I don’t yell, scream or nag but he does. I don’t say things I don’t mean. He says that I force him to say things he does not mean but (1) I don’t have that kind of superhuman power and (2) he has never apologized so, yes, I believe he means them. Yes, I have tears (which my husband informed me are a tool of manipulation, so I am guilty of that).

When he was unfaithful the first time, I addressed it. When I suspected it afterward, I said nothing, knowing that the punishment was worse than the crime. When he slapped me, shoved me, and in a frenzied attempt to get the clicker from me swept the lamp and cable box onto my leg and left me with a massive bruise I did think about leaving him. I did leave him, with my boys, when he attacked our son. I did see a counselor. My boys refused to see one and the older one begged and pleaded for us to go back. I should have stood my ground.

I know divorce hurts. My dad’s and step-mom’s divorce hurt me worse than my dad’s and mom’s. I think my boys are so glad that someone, SOMEONE is standing up to their father. The older one has, but he’s backed down … just tired, I guess. The younger one, unfortunately, has learned my mechanism of not rocking the boat.

Thank you for sharing but the truth is, I don’t want him anymore. Looking back, seeing such few gestures ever of love or affection from him ever, even when we dated, I wonder why I ever did.

Saving the marriage is not the best thing for my sons. Seeing their mother finally have the courage to save herself is far better.

Debbie

Reply

Debbie 14 July 2010 at 11:28 am Permalink

Michael,

Another thing that I am guilty of: low self-esteem. This is evident by falling in love with an abusive man. It got worse:

http://www.biblehelp.org/cow.htm

That was one of my favorite stories as a kid. I never realized, of course, that for me it would prove to be a prophecy.

I am healing, though. I am learning that self-preservation and selfishness are two very different things.

While husband responds to me respectfully now, he’s thrilled that I left him everything and have not asked for a penny. It never was about money. It was about my love for him, the belief in the promise of marriage which includes the blessing of our children. That is why, as I live near poverty, I am not fretting about the fact that he has everything. *shoulder shrug* All I ever wanted was his love and our marriage and family. Evidently, that never was on the table. He duped me from the get go.

You insist that the failure to communicate is on my side. Even my husband would laugh at that.

Debbie

Reply

Debbie 14 July 2010 at 1:45 pm Permalink

I see my last comment is still awaiting moderation.

You know, Michael, your and my conversation has stirred up some old stuff but I see some glaring differences between your and my situation and, perhaps, this will bring our conversation to an end.

You think the priority is the marriage.

I think it’s my sanity my saving myself from an abusive relationship.

Perhaps you did not live in fear of your spouse. I did. Perhaps your children did not live in fear of her. Mine still do. They wouldn’t say so, but they won’t talk to him about things because he’ll freak out. When we all lived at the house, the first thing the three of us would ask each other is “What kind of mood is he in?” and we’d warn each other to stay out of his way because he was “in one of his moods”.

IF I ever have another relationship again, it will be with a man that loves me. Real love includes respect and kindness. My husband does not love me nor, looking back, has he ever. I was cute. I was hot. Other guys wanted me. I adored him and that made him look good. And, to top it off, I had orders for Hawaii. That, I think, is why he proposed to me a few weeks after I PCS’d.

Perhaps you and your wife had something from the beginning, and so you had something to save.

My husband said he stopped loving me “as much as he used to”, shortly after our first child was born. You know … that’s when my tour was up … that’s when he and our son went back to the mainland while I finished my military commitment. No more Hawaii? No more love. And trust me, Michael, there were huge waving red flags from our very first dating days … but I was so focused on him … I saw them, sure I did … and I knew what some of them were … but I thought whatever horrendous life experiences he endured to make him so cold and mean would be healed by my loving patience. Those are the thoughts of a naive 20 year old girl. I know better now.

So, while we have the silent treatment in common, I don’t think there’s anything else in our marriages that resemble one another.

Best wishes for your continued happiness.

Debbie

Reply

Venus 14 July 2010 at 3:04 pm Permalink

Debbie, I agree with you there It doesn’t seem Michael has the same experience hte rest of us do. He clearly isn’t afraid of his wife and/or walking on eggshells. And that is the different.
You mentioned no ‘respect or kindness’ in your relationship. And that is just what it is. A lack of respect and kindness. Michael’s situation is totally different so I don’t think he can relate to what the rest of us are saying. Not talking is a communication problem however when it’s done intentionally in order to inflict pain and hurt and you’ve told the other person to STOP, that it is offensive to you and/or it hurts your feelings and they CONTINUE to do it, habitually, on end, it is wrong. Way wrong. Nothing excuses completely blanking someone, especially someone they’re supposed to be close to. One occurence, ok, but not when it’s a PATTERN. It is emotionally abusive.

Reply

elleke 14 July 2010 at 7:38 pm Permalink

Michael, I don’t know why you would think that just because you are a guy that your viewpoint is invalid here. I must admit I was surprised to discover there are so many men who practice the silent treatment, but I believe there are many more women who do it. If men wanted to “vent” this blog would be the perfect place. I suspect that many men just don’t share their frustration.

I think you may be a little naive if you think “no, I’m not stopping until you understand, and not take the easy way out and run away” will make a difference to most pattern silent treaters.

I did not back down. I too believed that if I made myself understood that the situation would be mended. (It did not matter what the issue was if he did not want to deal with anything.) In fact I was continually trying “to continue until he understood.” I don’t think I had a wall up to his communication if there was to be any. I tried really hard to understand. Even after I had many insights into his behavior, it made no difference in the situation. (He was an orphan, with an abusive stepfather and passive mother and 11 siblings. He got lost emotionally in the family dynamic.)

No matter how hard I tried to continue the conversation, it got nowhere. In fact it made his passive-aggressive tendencies worse. When he finally would say somethine, he blamed me over and over again because I would just not shut up or said that my talking was making a problem where there was none or told me I was hysterical or overreacting. Ultimately, anything that was done regarding our problems was done by me alone because he was just not going to “move.”

To be fair, there were about 3 instances over a period of 20 years when he did communicate and it made a huge difference in how we dealt with not only each other but others in our lives.

When, after a counseling session or two, he realized that cutting me off and going into the other room was not acceptable behavior, he would sit in a chair and let me “communicate,” still not saying anything in the way of good face-to-face interchange to deal with whatever situation we had. Then he could go back and tell the counselor that he had listened and responded. He would then tell the counselor that I was interfering with his parenting, his work or his sanity.

The reality was that he was still giving the silent treatment, but in person, rather than by going in his room to sulk. There was no one going to change his way of dealing with the world. (I think he had dug in his heels so far by this time that if he had really engaged with me he would have felt he was weak.)

We finally stopped going to counseling together. He did not like being put on the spot by the therapist and was mean to the children and me after each session. So when he said the therapist was not fixing him and that he was not going any more, I did not force the issue. It became clear that the end of the marriage was near.

I have discovered that the point of the silent treatment is to exert power over someone.

Sometimes it is necessary for our sanity to treat others this way, i.e., they are stalking you, hurting you, undermining you.

(Twice in my life I have had to turn my back on my birth family because they would not respect me and were blatant, even to the point of hitting me when I was over 30 years old. I tried hard to communicate with them regarding their offensive behavior and all I got was the same old, same old, how what I was doing was the problem; I was hurting them and my siblings. Even when my mother tearfully came to make up, she never really understood my viewpoint but consequently she was more respectful to me because she knew I would not tolerate otherwise. It hurt me to treat others this way. The pattern silent treaters do not hurt when they blank someone out. They revel in the hurt they are causing and that makes the difference between the maturity of the receiver and the immaturity of the giver of the silent treatment.)

If this childish behavior is a pervasive part of someone’s personality, then the only answer I can see is to protect oneself from them. They have no right to trample on your selfhood.

If your solution of just keeping at the communication is working, then I applaud you. Your effectiveness is to be commended. I wish it had worked for me. Perhaps you could help by detailing the steps you took to get listened to. I would appreciate it.

Reply

Angela 27 July 2010 at 8:10 am Permalink

I can indentify with so much thats been said on the posts above.

I’ve been married for just over 9 years, I thought he was my Prince Charming, such a gentleman.

I think I stayed with him for so long because you feel like such a failure to admit Divorce is for the best. In many arguments I would mention Divorce to try and get him to make me feel loved and that he couldn’t bear to be without me but he would just say I can’t stop you if thats what you want and to get him to say thats not what he wanted I would have to try and pull the words from him.

After the 1st year of marriage I knew I made a mistake and he was not the man he portrayed himself to be but I tried my best. After we were married then he tells me he doesn’t have a big sex drive and would NEVER initiate sex which would make me feel unwanted, and we could only have sex in the morning because in the evening he didn’t like to have sex. I didn’t want a sex machine but sex even once a week would have been nice!

He was so romantic when we first got together, and after that 1st year I was lucky to get any hint of romance, and even though to this day I still tell him I need a bit of romance and I need him to show me how much he loves me, his answer is well I work too many hours for romance I wish I had time. I said even a romantic text telling me I’m beautiful would be nice, but he’s too busy making me feel a worthless piece of garbage. He finds time to send a million and one texts to his friends in his day though.

If we get in an argument its always “your pushing my buttons”, “I need to relax in my time off of work and your not letting me relax”, he will make sure he has his say and then if I try to respond he gets into a rage and tells me to Shut up and drop it NOW, calls me names, breaks stuff or threatens to break stuff and in the past he has shoved, thrown stuff at me, slapped me once or twice. I never raise my voice at him.

He says I need to just drop it when he says to drop it and I ask well how do we resolve the argument if you won’t discuss it, and he says well he needs to cooldown. But even if I try to bring it up days later after he has “calmed down”, he won’t discuss it and says I’m trying to start a fight. Its sooooo frustrating! The silent treatment as well has been a useful technique he employs.

He knows its what I hate the most and in the past he would storm off for days and not answer text messeges, phonecalls etc…even if I had an emergency come up. He’s British and I moved to England and never made any friends so I am isolated enough and he knows to isolate me from him drives me crazy and I used to cry and not sleep and just comfort eat. I ask him how he can ignore me like that when I am all alone in this country and he blames me for any argument.

He actually forgets what he has said or the reasons for it, and somehow in his mind he is always right! He even forgot the fact that he shoved me to the ground once and I injured my knee and had to have surgery, I had to beg him to take me to the hospital and he put me down in front of people the whole time because I made him wait. He said he thought I was lying about my injury but I NEVER lie to him. We got in an argument a few months ago and I brought it up and he said I was making things up about him because he completely had himself convinced I just fell and injured myself.

I don’t understand why I have put up with the emotional abuse, physical abuse and just mind games for so long.

He is currently giving me the silent treatment which he loves to do, just a text messege to do with work stuff, and I know he won’t call me, he waits for me to come crawling to him and begging for attention but I guess I have just stopped caring. I slept fine the last 2 nights, I realized I need to get bills paid off, money saved and leave ASAP! If we didn’t have so many pets I would have been gone LONG ago. I’ve said that before but I realize I have gained over 100 pounds since moving here, Im depressed, I haven’t felt loved for a long time, now he uses my weight as an excuse for us not having sex and we haven’t had sex for years though when I say if he doesn’t find me attractive lets go our seperate ways and he manages to make me feel bad because how could I just throw away our marriage so easily as he says sex isn’t important.

Though after one bad argument he posted on a sex website saying he was looking for sex basically because we never have sex(though its his choice) He was even emailing back and forth to some women, and posting pictures online, and yet when I confronted him about it, he blamed me for starting the argument supposedly and he said he thought we were over though it was news to me because after days of the silent treatment after the argument he finally answered my calls and we said we would work it out and for months after he never mentioned to me it was over.

He has made me feel everything is always my fault, I cause him to give me the silent treatment, I cause every argument, I cause him to break stuff, I cause him to shove me or hurt me. I can’t do it anymore. I made enough excuses in the past, and I know once I actually say the Divorce words, him and his family will just blame me all over again. He will never see what an abusive person he is. I am just thankful for my fertility problems as we don’t have kids.

I’m not going to give in this time to his silent treatment, I hope it lasts for months so he can see I just do not care anymore and he has no more control over me! Maybe some arguments were my fault but not all of them and I certainly have never treated him with the silent treatment or physical/mental abuse. I’m looking forward to a future without him in it!

Reply

Debbie 30 July 2010 at 11:56 am Permalink

Yes, we know … we have been there. While you are preparing to leave, you need to know that you are not alone … and that his power comes from you. So, to help you reclaim your power, read as much as you can.

No one I know married, intending to divorce. My husband would always say, “divorce is not an option”. But take a look at the wedding vows and realize that the contract that was stated is not being honored, nor was it ever his intention.

The following link is someone’s blog, not an official psychiatric site. But it’s a good composite of information. Read it. Read everything you can.

http://qow1.blogspot.com/

I remember seeing the movie “Sleeping With The Enemy” with Julia Roberts, while vacationing with my in-laws. I was so uncomfortable, feeling like I was being exposed, but they had no idea, no idea. It’s terrifying to realize that you were not a victim as much as a target … and that the only way to save yourself is to abandon everything you ever knew. Just remember: everything you knew was a facade, it was not real. He is not real. He is an image that he’s created so no one will know how empty he is inside. IF HE WANTED HELP, he could change, but he is convinced that he is superior to everyone and will not seek it. Once you go, he’ll carry on like nothing every happened.

If you can afford counseling, get it. You need help.

Best wishes

Reply

laura 30 July 2010 at 2:20 pm Permalink

My dear Angela

I know what you are going through, its very difficult to break off with some one u once considered the most important person of your life. I am going exactly through this,I am in long distance relationship. and my lover does has been giving silent treatment for over 4 years but i put up with it thinking that he loves me.

Even though we are in living distance relationship, he never picks up, making excuses that I am not into phone stuff, no matter how many times I say please I feel lonely , I am alone, over and over again he doesnt care, coz he is very secure about me coz I never gave him the chance of being insecure, I use to get scare when he use to be silent thinking that he will leave me, but such people neither leave you they just play games coz those who want to leave they leave once……..

These are mind games which men play to assert their dominance coz naturally they want to just dominate , best way that I have now realise is to leave such kind of men….just leave them, loss is theirs coz they are deficient , fault is with them not with us we atleast have put up with them for years who else is going to put up with such kind of men….

So my dear dont put up with him, its only when u go far he will realise ur worth, I know going far sounds very tough, I am myself dealing with it but once it starts effecting ur health, mentally and physically and effects ur confidence get out!! life is more imp than such people and sometimes to teach them their worth its imp to get out , and dont tell him I am breaking off……….. just silently leave, let him figure out own his on and introspect what he did coz if u tell him he will never understand leave but silently

venom is the best antidote for another venom

silent for silent!!!!

Reply

elleke 30 July 2010 at 8:01 pm Permalink

Angela, your story is an echo of my marriage. Yes, you may have caused some arguments, but with a partner who doles out the silent treatment, it is hard to know what your own liability is. So, don’t blame yourself. When you get out of the marriage and begin to heal, then you can examine this. It will be hard because these “silent treatment” individuals are not normal and you will be examinining abnormal “norms.” Try to remember when you trusted yourself where others are concerns.
Bless you.

Reply

Leslie 8 August 2010 at 3:32 am Permalink

This is a very interesting thread. I came upon it quite innocently but speaks to a situation to which I am going through. Today is my 61st Birthday. I have heard nothing from my son or daughter and it is now bedtime. I have spent the entire day alone. My son lives on the West Coast, my daughter around the corner. I haven’t seen my son in 19 months. Recently their uncle, their father’s brother passed away. My former husband also lives on the West Coast. My daughter made it a point to let me know that both her father and brother were coming into the area for the impending death. I gave my condolences to my daughter and said how excited I was that I would see my son. She immediately informed me that he would be going into another area of the State (250 miles from me) and he would not be seeing me. I offered to drive to where he was going to be but she refused to give me any information on his travel plans. I heard nothing from my son. My former husband and myself do not have any type of relationship so speaking with him is never an option. My daughter immediately stopped speaking with me, stating that I did not have the gravity of the situation and implying that how dare I impose on their travel plans. I also found out, after the fact, that she drove the 250 miles to see them and never let me know. One week later my daughter, my son, my former husband and his new wife all got together for a cruise to Mexico. She can’t understand “why” I was upset at not having the opportunity to see my son. He has stopped all communicaiton with me as well. I honestly thought that I would hear from them for a Birthday wish, but I guess I was wrong. Even a text would have made me happy. This has been going on for two months. My daughter sends me an email stating that she will email me when she is ready to talk. I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. I can never get this Birthday back and it doesn’t have a “do over”.

Reply

Heart 14 August 2010 at 3:51 pm Permalink

I hope that this applies and someone can give me some insight. My boyfriend broke up with me last Tuesday for the following reason: when I’m upset, I have a really hard time communicating it right away. Instead, I hold it all inside, and become quiet…I need time to cool off before I can talk about what it was that was bothering me. Well he told me over and over that he wanted me to just communicate, and I kept telling him it’s not easy for me, he needs to be patient…

I sent a few texts that same night (Tuesday) and an e-mail Wednesday morning, another text Saturday, and actually mailed an apology letter to his home. It’s Saturday, and it’s been over a week and no response from him…AT ALL.

Yet the funny thing…..Monday night (the night before he broke up with me last week), we were talking and got upset at one another, and I said “do you want to break up?” out of anger (which I didn’t mean of course) ….well he got upset that I said that and said that meant he was giving up and didn’t care….then the next day he did just that…gave up. I’m honestly confused…..and now almost at the two week mark – I’ve been getting the silent treatment.

I don’t know if he’s gotten my letter yet, so trying not to get upset and jump to conclusions…..yet, the issue at hand isn’t something to get THIS upset about and walk away.

I do love him, do care for him, and I know he feels the same………….and I feel in my heart that he’s upset………even though he said it’s over, his heart isn’t in it any longer, and he can’t do it anymore….but this behavior…….I don’t get it ………

Any insight?

Reply

jilly 26 August 2010 at 11:12 am Permalink

it’s amazing to read all of this. I’ve had an emotionally abusive mother and a father who did nothing but adore his narcissistic wife. My sister and I grew up in a home where passive aggressive behavior and worse yet, being forced to ‘make up’ and ‘say sorry’ was the ‘norm’.

I met a terrific friend several years ago and as long as i was ‘submissive/adoring’ toward her, she was fabulous. These last two years have seen a change in our relationship. I am no longer the person I was and can no longer stomach being ‘nice’ anymore. After a rather serious conflict, my friend chose to do the ‘silent treatment’.It has been going on for the last three months now.At first, i thought it was thoroughly my fault – that i was so desperately ‘needy’ of her attention and that my need for validation had caused strain in our relationship. But I had no clue WHAT she was feeling because she refused to communicate citing in one brief moment of communication that that she was ‘busy’.

This past week, a shift occurred in me. I found myself moving from ‘loving’ this woman like a sister to ‘hating’ her and then quite frankly, to feeling NOTHING for her. I realized that WAITTAMINUTE. Why was I killing myself and suffering over something that she seemed to be masterminding? The minute I understood this, i wrote her and told her that I didn’t in fact need to ask her for HER forgiveness because she had indicated “nothing” so therefore I (in my world anyway) had done “nothing” to her to deserve this treatment. That was the perfect ‘logical’ conclusion to her ‘perfectly’ logical choice.

Furthermore, knowing that I had done “nothing” through her silent treatment allowed me to take back my power and tell her that my realization of this truth and her subsequent silent treatment was in fact ‘liberating’ to me. That shift in my own understanding of what was going on moved me from “victim” to fully actualized human being. I adore and love my friend however, it IS true that your body/mind knows what it needs and it WILL do what it needs to do to heal itself even if you aren’t at a point yet where you can consciously decide.

Today, i have been empowered to end our relationship & special friendship. And… i can now forgive and move on in my life.

I deserve better. I ‘matter’. And YOU do TOO! So believe in your inner voice/vision and PRAY. Pray that God gives you the grace to recognize the truth of who you are.

Reply

Ken Savage Making IT in Massachusetts

Ken Savage Writes About Technology, Music, TV, Movies in Boston

The Silent Treatment – What You Are Saying By Not Saying Anything At All

Cooling Off And Ostracizing Are Two Very Different Things

When You Are On The Receiving End Of The Silent Treatment

618 Responses to “The Silent Treatment – What You Are Saying By Not Saying Anything At All”

Leave a Reply

Recent Posts

Categories

Favorite Sites